I think where women get off the bus is when the guy is finally expressing not fashion freedom (the acceptable umbrella) but a submissive and vulnerable sexual stance.
fine to express it, but not fine in a relationship which started on another presumption altogether. the female then has to accept a different role and it's a public one--why should she just accept it?
if you want a woman who is more dominant, you should express that less dominant side of your personality to begin with and you'll attract such a person. what isn't going to fly is if you change horses half way through the relationship and she is caught unawares. I can see that being a pretty well impossible thing to change on your own.
New girlfriend not accepting.......
Just a quick note, guys:
We seem to have reached a compromise that I can certainly live it. I'll run you through the details later. I did however make my mark very, very clear.
More or less, it means, for the moment atleast, giving up a few skirts that I basically wear more to the clubs than in the streets (which have only happened about 2-3 times). So its not really a huge effort from me, and I made it very specific that I will go to no further compromises on this subject. At the moment we're both content with this.
I'll choose to excercise my freedom whenever my heart feels like it. If she cannot take it, I'll bring it up for discussion again. If she still wont listen to (my) reason, then so be it, Im afraid. Deep down, I do hope that this all turns out well.
I'll be back after the weekend...watch this space
We seem to have reached a compromise that I can certainly live it. I'll run you through the details later. I did however make my mark very, very clear.
More or less, it means, for the moment atleast, giving up a few skirts that I basically wear more to the clubs than in the streets (which have only happened about 2-3 times). So its not really a huge effort from me, and I made it very specific that I will go to no further compromises on this subject. At the moment we're both content with this.
I'll choose to excercise my freedom whenever my heart feels like it. If she cannot take it, I'll bring it up for discussion again. If she still wont listen to (my) reason, then so be it, Im afraid. Deep down, I do hope that this all turns out well.
I'll be back after the weekend...watch this space
whoops! I clicked on the red triangle by reject's post to see what it was for (I never noticed that triangle anywhere before)--I don't think anything came of it but I hope it didn't report a bad post by accident! sorry if I did!!!
threads I killed: 2
threads I killed: 2
The only thing man cannot endure is meaninglessness.
U need to leave her! She'll only hold you back. I wear my kilts and skirts wherever I like, and you should too. I wore my denim skirt to the England match (which we lost 3-2, I hope they sack the coach), no one batted an eyelid (it was just a regular knee-length one) with trainers and socks. 
I'm sure your girlfriend will change her ideas if she's threatened with being dumped. You need to be a playa, dude! Don't make wearing a skirt turn you into a poof, you're still a MAN
I'm sure your girlfriend will change her ideas if she's threatened with being dumped. You need to be a playa, dude! Don't make wearing a skirt turn you into a poof, you're still a MAN
Hallo reject, I have been married and divorced, am now a free man.
There is a problem we all face, and that is: when do you know precicely who you are, and where you are taking that to? In an ongoing development that only stops when you do, litterally! We develop continually all our lives. We cannot know how we will be, act in situations that we have not been in before, but need to look very carefully at our selves, something that is probably not tought to most of us, having to learn the hard way.
When we are young and are seeking a partner, we may not have enough experience with being our true selves, (as this is only known to us as we practice it in our daily lives) so it may be difficult to say at that time how important skirt wearing is. More important is the realisation that a skirt is only a piece of cloth. You are doing more than merely wearing a piece of cloth, you are venturing in the unknown for regular men. You are expressing yourself, seeking new boundaries. This is a freedom many non skirt wearers do not experience.
This new found and constantly evolving "experience" is now a part of you , otherwise you wouldn't have worn a skirt. (there are always exceptions)
Even though you may not know the extent of your "experience," your freedom, you know it exists. This is something that no man or woman for that matter should ever compromise on. It is YOU. Anybody who doesn't want YOU is not worth the time. Get rid of them.
Don't compromise on your sole. Although we are constantly evolving, be yourself as you know you to be at that moment in time. What tomorrow brings is for tomorrow.
Do not accept any manipulation and make no sacrifices, on your very sole.
A woman must love YOU, your sole, and it doesn't matter what you wear, or where you go, she will follow and you may do the same, both not compromising either's identity by doing so.
You simply cannot compromise on your inner self. That inner self is expression, and that expression takes form in amongst other things, skirt wearing. No one has the right to ""persuade "" you to change that. It is part of you. She must accept that. If she wants to love another you, then she should look for the other "you" but that is not you.
Anny manipulation, concession now will only lead to problems further on. Only unwanted pain, lost years, financial problems, children from a broken home, all those things can come out of not being yourself.
So be warned. Take heed.
There are always exceptions to the rule, but never rely on that.
I have said it before, and others here have also said it, don't live a lie. What is this woman worth for you if she wants you to live a lie? A lie to yourself, eating away at you, and a lie to her. What does she enjoy in that, knowing that you are really someone else than the person that she wants you acting as.
If the realisation that the man wants to express himself, finally stepping over the barriers that have kept him from doing so before, happens when married, there may be great obstacles to be moved. Financially, and with children, but even then it is a fact. You can't deny that. The same rules apply. Only the consequences can be more drastic. But don't have to be.
When one of the two people in a marriage can't or will not respect the other for who he or she is, then there is no marriage to speak of any more. That comes hard. It may come as a shock, but it does happen, accept it. We don't want to see or hear that, but it is a fact. It is not the man who brings it upon the marriage, but the inability of the woman in this happening to follow what is happening, showing a shortcoming that was not evident before the ceremony, or was seen but pushed asside as not important. We often look with eyes wide open, but don't see. Some things can't be seen coming, but if there is even a small signal, be warned! In such a situation, make the best of it, and get out before both your lives are destroyed by that.
Get out before you get too involved, financially, childeren.
Be yourself. Realise that by being your true self, anyone interested in you will be interested in your true self, because that is the only you they know. That is the best, most sound way to go in a relationship.
As with all advice, it is up to the reader to do with it as he or she pleases, so success with your choices.
Peter v
There is a problem we all face, and that is: when do you know precicely who you are, and where you are taking that to? In an ongoing development that only stops when you do, litterally! We develop continually all our lives. We cannot know how we will be, act in situations that we have not been in before, but need to look very carefully at our selves, something that is probably not tought to most of us, having to learn the hard way.
When we are young and are seeking a partner, we may not have enough experience with being our true selves, (as this is only known to us as we practice it in our daily lives) so it may be difficult to say at that time how important skirt wearing is. More important is the realisation that a skirt is only a piece of cloth. You are doing more than merely wearing a piece of cloth, you are venturing in the unknown for regular men. You are expressing yourself, seeking new boundaries. This is a freedom many non skirt wearers do not experience.
This new found and constantly evolving "experience" is now a part of you , otherwise you wouldn't have worn a skirt. (there are always exceptions)
Even though you may not know the extent of your "experience," your freedom, you know it exists. This is something that no man or woman for that matter should ever compromise on. It is YOU. Anybody who doesn't want YOU is not worth the time. Get rid of them.
Don't compromise on your sole. Although we are constantly evolving, be yourself as you know you to be at that moment in time. What tomorrow brings is for tomorrow.
Do not accept any manipulation and make no sacrifices, on your very sole.
A woman must love YOU, your sole, and it doesn't matter what you wear, or where you go, she will follow and you may do the same, both not compromising either's identity by doing so.
You simply cannot compromise on your inner self. That inner self is expression, and that expression takes form in amongst other things, skirt wearing. No one has the right to ""persuade "" you to change that. It is part of you. She must accept that. If she wants to love another you, then she should look for the other "you" but that is not you.
Anny manipulation, concession now will only lead to problems further on. Only unwanted pain, lost years, financial problems, children from a broken home, all those things can come out of not being yourself.
So be warned. Take heed.
There are always exceptions to the rule, but never rely on that.
I have said it before, and others here have also said it, don't live a lie. What is this woman worth for you if she wants you to live a lie? A lie to yourself, eating away at you, and a lie to her. What does she enjoy in that, knowing that you are really someone else than the person that she wants you acting as.
If the realisation that the man wants to express himself, finally stepping over the barriers that have kept him from doing so before, happens when married, there may be great obstacles to be moved. Financially, and with children, but even then it is a fact. You can't deny that. The same rules apply. Only the consequences can be more drastic. But don't have to be.
When one of the two people in a marriage can't or will not respect the other for who he or she is, then there is no marriage to speak of any more. That comes hard. It may come as a shock, but it does happen, accept it. We don't want to see or hear that, but it is a fact. It is not the man who brings it upon the marriage, but the inability of the woman in this happening to follow what is happening, showing a shortcoming that was not evident before the ceremony, or was seen but pushed asside as not important. We often look with eyes wide open, but don't see. Some things can't be seen coming, but if there is even a small signal, be warned! In such a situation, make the best of it, and get out before both your lives are destroyed by that.
Get out before you get too involved, financially, childeren.
Be yourself. Realise that by being your true self, anyone interested in you will be interested in your true self, because that is the only you they know. That is the best, most sound way to go in a relationship.
As with all advice, it is up to the reader to do with it as he or she pleases, so success with your choices.
Peter v
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
Bail, Bail now.
First off, you have known her for three months. That is not long at all. Second, she acted like she liked your clothing style, which was deceitful, that does nothing towards her display of integrity.
What else does she not like about you? The fact that she hid from you her distaste of your clothing points to a person who could dislike other aspects of you, but is too desperate for a lover to tell you.
Dump her. Even if she is the most gorgeous or hot woman you have known, dump her.
Compromising is BS in most cases. In most relationships it is the man that loses stuff in the act of compromising, which has got to stop.
First off, you have known her for three months. That is not long at all. Second, she acted like she liked your clothing style, which was deceitful, that does nothing towards her display of integrity.
What else does she not like about you? The fact that she hid from you her distaste of your clothing points to a person who could dislike other aspects of you, but is too desperate for a lover to tell you.
Dump her. Even if she is the most gorgeous or hot woman you have known, dump her.
Compromising is BS in most cases. In most relationships it is the man that loses stuff in the act of compromising, which has got to stop.
Pythos,
I agree that this is a relationship that has no future and needs to be ended. The deceit/control issues make this non viable.
However, I think it best to omit the arguement of "who loses more" when a relationship crashes and burns. There are arguements that can be made from both sides and validly so.
Every relationship involves compromise. Unhealthy compromise is where one party looses a part of him or her self and is subjugated by the other party.
This relationship is just getting of on the wrong foot. I don't think it is or can be healthy.
I agree that this is a relationship that has no future and needs to be ended. The deceit/control issues make this non viable.
However, I think it best to omit the arguement of "who loses more" when a relationship crashes and burns. There are arguements that can be made from both sides and validly so.
Every relationship involves compromise. Unhealthy compromise is where one party looses a part of him or her self and is subjugated by the other party.
This relationship is just getting of on the wrong foot. I don't think it is or can be healthy.
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cessna152towser
- Member Extraordinaire
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Since the original poster asked for advice more than a year ago I think he will have made up his mind about the girlfriend by now.
Please view my photos of kilts and skirts, old trains, vintage buses and classic aircraft on http://www.flickr.com/photos/cessna152towser/
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Brandy
- Member Extraordinaire
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- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:09 pm
- Location: Mountain View, CA
Surpressed emotions 'will' not maybe come out sideways. That means even though you made a compromise that you think you can live with today, there is always tomorrow and the day after, and the day after that, .... the snide remarks will start, honey just not this one time, ...Reject wrote:Just a quick note, guys:
We seem to have reached a compromise that I can certainly live it. I'll run you through the details later. I did however make my mark very, very clear.
You caved once already, so the die has been cast and she knows she can always get her way, pardon me but your deal is not a good one, it's one sided. She started out lieing to you that is not a good way to start a long term relationship.
Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt, home movies, and the divorce.
-- Brandy
OMG I hadn't seen that. It was a jear ago. How could I have overlooked that one?cessna152towser wrote:Since the original poster asked for advice more than a year ago I think he will have made up his mind about the girlfriend by now.
Thanks.
Peter v
Ps. my thoughts still stand.
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
You are very right, Sapphire, there are always two losers. No one really wins. The situations are changed.sapphire wrote:Pythos,
I agree that this is a relationship that has no future and needs to be ended. The deceit/control issues make this non viable.
However, I think it best to omit the arguement of "who loses more" when a relationship crashes and burns. There are arguements that can be made from both sides and validly so.
Every relationship involves compromise. Unhealthy compromise is where one party looses a part of him or her self and is subjugated by the other party.
This relationship is just getting of on the wrong foot. I don't think it is or can be healthy.
I will say, however, that although I atleast try to mtake in consideration the other party, the wife in most cases, I do as most of us do, speak from a man's stand point, from ad defence of the man involved standpoint, and in that it will be aimed towards the partner, wife. That does not mean that we don't realise that the partner also has to deal with the situation.
Thank you however, for mentioning the fact, incase some of us had in our spontaneous reaction forgotten to mention that.
Peter v.
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
Peter v,
Thanks for understanding.
I was speaking from the point of a child whose parents divorced. Things were great, happy, magical, until it fell apart. Then things became increasingly corrosive and cold. Both of my parents were miserable and hurting, as were my brother and myself. Their divorce was a blessing for everyone involved and allowed all of us to reach a level of healing.
Thanks for understanding.
I was speaking from the point of a child whose parents divorced. Things were great, happy, magical, until it fell apart. Then things became increasingly corrosive and cold. Both of my parents were miserable and hurting, as were my brother and myself. Their divorce was a blessing for everyone involved and allowed all of us to reach a level of healing.
Yes, my parents were divorced too, as I myself was only a few years ago now. I don't know if it was actually a goood thing that my parents were together for so long, probably unlucky with each other for many years before. As in my own marriage with ups and downs, It should have been ended much sooner, as aftersight, but my children weree atleast not that youg when it finally happened.sapphire wrote:Peter v,
Thanks for understanding.
I was speaking from the point of a child whose parents divorced. Things were great, happy, magical, until it fell apart. Then things became increasingly corrosive and cold. Both of my parents were miserable and hurting, as were my brother and myself. Their divorce was a blessing for everyone involved and allowed all of us to reach a level of healing.
So As soon as there is any issue at all, including skirt issues ( freedom issues) then it must be immediately attended to and appropriate measures taken. Unfortunately we don't get any lessons about how to deal with such things before we commit ourselves. Knowing how to recognise any problems when they first arrise could possibly save much pain and lost years.
Peter v.
A man is the same man in a pair of pants or a skirt. It is only the way people look at him that makes the difference.
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Sasquatch
- Member Extraordinaire
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- Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:18 am
- Location: North Carolina coast
Reject,
Sorry but it sounds like your relationship isn't going anywhere. She may be raising this issue now as a smoke screen to cover some other dissatisfaction. Maybe she's just fickle and saw a guy who piqued her interest, or maybe she's scared of a relationship with a man who is honest about what's inside him. Maybe she's looking for someone like her father. Unfortunately you'll never be able to know. I know this will draw the ire of some female correspondents on the site, but I think it is nearly impossible to comprehend what the fairer sex is thinking. Mostly they're a lot smarter than we are, but many are hamstrung with preconceptions of what and how men are supposed to be.
If I may, I'll share a joke. For the ladies I am about to offend, I will apologize in advance. Please forgive me!
There once was an old man strolling down an empty beach, when he encountered an odd looking jug which had washed in on the tide. As he pried the cork out, a genie appeared.
"Kind sir," the genie said, "I've been locked in that bottle for many years. I am so grateful for being freed that I will grant you any wish you want."
"Wow!" the astonished man said. "Let me think. You know, I've always wanted to take my wife to Hawaii, but I'm scared of ships and she's scared to fly. And we now like to travel in a motor home. So if you would, build me a bridge so we could drive to Hawaii. And, well, my bladder isn't what it used to be, so if you would, put some rest areas and gas stations about every hundred miles or so."
"You gotta be kidding!" the genie said. "The engineering for a bridge like that would be nearly impossible! The ocean is five miles deep, and there are currents, storms, volcanoes, and earthquakes down there, not to mention the ship traffic. It can't be done. I'm sorry, but you'll have to think of something else."
"Well," the old man said, scratching his chin. "You know, I've never really understood my wife. I hear what she's saying, but then it seems like she wanted something else, like I was supposed to be able to read her mind. I guess if you could give me the insight to understand what women think, that would be enough reward."
The genie contemplated his request for a time, and then replied "How far apart did you say you want those rest stops?"
Reject, I'm not making light of the pain this will inevitably cause you, but I think you should prepare yourself for a breakup. Maybe your dress is the issue, but I suspect it is more complicated than that. You'll have our support, so keep us informed if you would.
Sasq
Sorry but it sounds like your relationship isn't going anywhere. She may be raising this issue now as a smoke screen to cover some other dissatisfaction. Maybe she's just fickle and saw a guy who piqued her interest, or maybe she's scared of a relationship with a man who is honest about what's inside him. Maybe she's looking for someone like her father. Unfortunately you'll never be able to know. I know this will draw the ire of some female correspondents on the site, but I think it is nearly impossible to comprehend what the fairer sex is thinking. Mostly they're a lot smarter than we are, but many are hamstrung with preconceptions of what and how men are supposed to be.
If I may, I'll share a joke. For the ladies I am about to offend, I will apologize in advance. Please forgive me!
There once was an old man strolling down an empty beach, when he encountered an odd looking jug which had washed in on the tide. As he pried the cork out, a genie appeared.
"Kind sir," the genie said, "I've been locked in that bottle for many years. I am so grateful for being freed that I will grant you any wish you want."
"Wow!" the astonished man said. "Let me think. You know, I've always wanted to take my wife to Hawaii, but I'm scared of ships and she's scared to fly. And we now like to travel in a motor home. So if you would, build me a bridge so we could drive to Hawaii. And, well, my bladder isn't what it used to be, so if you would, put some rest areas and gas stations about every hundred miles or so."
"You gotta be kidding!" the genie said. "The engineering for a bridge like that would be nearly impossible! The ocean is five miles deep, and there are currents, storms, volcanoes, and earthquakes down there, not to mention the ship traffic. It can't be done. I'm sorry, but you'll have to think of something else."
"Well," the old man said, scratching his chin. "You know, I've never really understood my wife. I hear what she's saying, but then it seems like she wanted something else, like I was supposed to be able to read her mind. I guess if you could give me the insight to understand what women think, that would be enough reward."
The genie contemplated his request for a time, and then replied "How far apart did you say you want those rest stops?"
Reject, I'm not making light of the pain this will inevitably cause you, but I think you should prepare yourself for a breakup. Maybe your dress is the issue, but I suspect it is more complicated than that. You'll have our support, so keep us informed if you would.
Sasq
Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!
Hunter/Garcia
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!
Hunter/Garcia