ASK SUSIE

[Susie]

Thank you all for such a warm welcome to your special space.

As the title suggests, if you want a female opinion on something, please do feel free to ask.

I can't speak for all women but I can give you a peak behind the walls of pink cotton.

[Mouse]

I travel on the London tube quite often, and it amazes me how often I am the only skirted person in the carriage. Many of the women have taken on the same male drab look, that some of us MIS are trying to get away from. The summer improves the number of skirts, but the thought remains that women have such a range of choice and yet still gravitate to male drab looks a lot of the time. Don't get me wrong, I am all for women to have total choice to wear what ever they want and some are amazing in what they wear. I am just interested in their choice. What do you see as driving the female trouser love.

[Barleymower]

Mouse I asked my wife the same question. She had practically given up on skirts and dresses. She said for practically, comfort and security. Other reason was judgement. Mrs BM said that people would say things like "why is she wearing that?" It's also no secret that choice in skirts and dresses diminishes in the larger sizes.

I'm pleased to say she has returned to nicer clothes since I started wearing skirts. If he can do it so can I she said and she does now. She buys more and I have bought her lots of new clothes along with mine. I never would have seen that coming

[Susie]

For women, trousers are usually seen as safer - you're less likely to be accused of 'asking for it' in trousers.
The tube can also be quite windy, and trousers are less likely to get entangled.

[Fred in Skirts]

Still for the male of the species it is the area of the crotch that causes problems. I don't mind about the windy days nor it getting tangled in something. It hasn't happened yet!
I wear knee length and calf length skirts as well as dresses and find them to be very comfortable as well as long enough not to cause a problem with the morals police........

[DrFishnets]

My partner really hates wearing skirts, dresses and tights and prefers wearing trousers, jeans, socks and loafer shoes. In fact the only time I’ve seen her wear a skirt or dress and tights in the 24 years I’ve been been with her was when she worked as a waitress at the university canteen. However, she loves seeing me wearing skirts, dresses and tights and she really supports me and tells me I look cool wearing them.

[Paula Proctor]

Hello, another woman's view of skirts and trousers here:
1. Trousers are practical and comfortable. Comfort physically and mentally. No chub rub with trousers.
2. I hate my legs. They are like tree trunks. When I was a 17 I had a 24 year old boyfriend and he told me I had fat legs. As a girl with very low self esteem that affected me.
3. Drab clothes are easy. You just put them on and don't have to think too much. Also some workplaces have a dress code maybe?

I am the fattest I've ever been now and I wear skirts more often but I'm also older so I give less of a sh1t what people think of me.

Mostly I'm jealous because my husband has great legs and looks good in most of his skirts.

[Barleymower]

Hello, another woman's view of skirts and trousers here:
1. Trousers are practical and comfortable. Comfort physically and mentally. No chub rub with trousers.
2. I hate my legs. They are like tree trunks. When I was a 17 I had a 24 year old boyfriend and he told me I had fat legs. As a girl with very low self esteem that affected me.
3. Drab clothes are easy. You just put them on and don't have to think too much. Also some workplaces have a dress code maybe?

I am the fattest I've ever been now and I wear skirts more often but I'm also older so I give less of a sh1t what people think of me.

Mostly I'm jealous because my husband has great legs and looks good in most of his skirts.

Thanks Paula for replying. A women's perspective on the board is always very welcome.

I like your matter of fact approach to clothes and I am sure you look lovely in everything you wear, especially skirts and dresses. Practically aside I hope you agree that feeling good and being free, helps us all through the trials of daily life.
Perhaps you could post a picture of your favourite skirts and dresses?

Btw most men have skinny lollypop legs. The lack of hips and addition of a belly doesn't help skirts to hang well.

Another point: I'm sure none of the men here would ever be so rude about a ladies legs. He was probably secretly jealous.

[crfriend]

3. Drab clothes are easy. You just put them on and don't have to think too much. Also some workplaces have a dress code maybe?

That's a massive problem for many reasons, not the least of which is that the guys have already taken that to heart and pursue little else.

A knock-on problem seems to be the utter lack of femininity in the modern world -- and that affects straight guys who are insufficiently homosexual to be attracted to "modern women" (which are sometimes "more male than male").

Both of these observations combine and almost multiply to reduce the overall beauty and enjoyability of life. It's tragic for everyone involved.

[Paula Proctor]

Drab clothes are a valid choice in the same way that wearing a skirt or bright colours is a choice. All choices are valid. Today I wore a grey batwing top, black trousers, grey tights underneath and black DMs. I know it works well as an outfit without too much thought, it's comfortable and more importantly I don't have to iron it.
The choice of the word drab is a bit judgemental. It's just another colour pallet and will be superceded by something else at some point. In the eighties men's clothes weren't drab. Neutral colours follow the "normcore" fashion and therefore it's just a fashion and therefore there is capacity for change.
Femininity is a social construct and has been imbued with the ideas of weakness and fragility. If women wanted to stake their claim to a more equal place in the world then they are going to bring out their masculine side either through clothes or behaviour because it's seen as more powerful and worthy. I am now lucky that I can choose a skirt or trousers because women before me had that fight against what was considered acceptable and over time attitudes have changed.
Unfortunately for men they still have that fight on their hands. And in some ways it's harder because they are seen as diminishing themselves by embracing their feminine side. Why should the feminine be seen as bad? One might argue that those in power made it that way for their own benefit.
Life is so full of contradictions and we have made it worse for ourselves by building these social constructs, judging people for when they don't fit them, when in fact no one fits in one box.

[Susie]

thank you Paula. Ironing is a major factor in clothes choice.
I have noticed on this site a rather judgemental attitude to women who do not want to dress like a peacock - fighting society to wear what they want (skirts / dresses) yet being critical when women wear what they want rather than what society (i.e.men) expect.

[timemeddler]

I don't get the practicality argument. I go shooting and putting up antenna's in skirts without problems, most people aren't working around moving machinery anyway. Then there's the temperature factor, after freezing for the last decade or so until I found out about wool maxi's with some layering, I'm warm. Unless I'm going to take up skiing again skirt beats pants, and they don't feel as clammy when I come back inside, plus the layers are more easily removed. Yet sometimes I still hear people claim pants are warmer than skirts, what gives?

[Paula Proctor]

I take your points on board and congrats on being able to wear skirts in any scenario.
I guess then I use the word practical in the sense that they work for.me. I feel marginally more comfortable in trousers than I do in a skirt. I feel more self conscious in a skirt. I think people are looking at me and judging when I wear skirts. And they probably are, as well as not.
Currently I hate all clothes because I hate my body. While.i said I give less of a sh1t what other people think, what I think is that I am gross.
Trousers are warmer with tights underneath. I like the feeling of having my legs encased in trousers. Weirdly I feel more protected and disguised. Also, to go back to my other point, they are a barrier against chub rub, which is big problem for me.

[crfriend]

Drab clothes are a valid choice in the same way that wearing a skirt or bright colours is a choice. All choices are valid.

Indeed, all choices are, but we also influence the world around us, and I at least try to brighten that up a bit by my choices of style. I'm also an outlier. Most folks do not realise that they can influence things.

The choice of the word drab is a bit judgemental. It's just another colour pallet and will be superceded by something else at some point. In the eighties men's clothes weren't drab. Neutral colours follow the "normcore" fashion and therefore it's just a fashion and therefore there is capacity for change.

It's only "judgemental" if you use it in discriminatory ways -- and I'm not. I'm using it the way an ornithologist would use the terms "bright" and "drab" to describe the plumage of the birds under study,

Not being of a "modern generation", I have no clue what "normcore" means, so you'll have to forgive me for that.

I like that you recall that men's clothes weren't always boring, but believe your time-frame is off by a half-decade or so. The 1970s were indeed a very bright time for fashion -- and was very colourful and flamboyant. 'Twas, sadly, a last dying gasp. That, at least for men, died in the very, very early 1980s (at least in the US) and interesting styles became "unobtanium" in mainstream stores (this was pre-Internet). Heeled shoes for men (other than "cowboy boots") went out of style very quickly, and by 1982 I was back in men's flats. The colour palette and cut/fabric choices were similarly cut back dramatically at the same time. I recall -- rather happily -- the fine fabric puffy-sleeved shirts I wore as a teenager becoming almost instantly scarce in 1981 or so. It hurt.

Why should the feminine be seen as bad?

It shouldn't be. Like yin and yang, both have a place in the world, and both should be allowed to flourish. Without that dichotomy we're vastly poorer as a species.

[Barleymower]

Thank you Susie and Paula for the womens perspective. It is something that is not often seen here. There is a feeling that skirts are the 'be all and end all'. A skirt for every occasion. Ideally we would change our clothes as the mood/situation takes us. It's all about freedom of choice.

I've seen it said here that men can choose and it's up to them. It's not as easy as that. Going for walk around London is one thing. Being ostracised and possibly loosing your livelihood over something so trival, another.