skirtcafe.org

Hello Jeff and other African American Men,

I would like to ask you a questions regarding gender policing in the African American community that had been on my mind for quite some time. My perspective may be entirely incorrect, so I am hoping that you will spend a few minutes shedding some light on this topic. I have noticed over the past 10 years or more that many men and women in the African American community seem to have a very low tolerance for men stepping out of the Man-Box regarding fashion. For example, when Dwayne Wade painted his nails, many people in the African American community became unglued and hurled insults and insinuations regarding Dwayne’s sexuality. The same situation occurred again with African American Rappers wearing skirts, nail polish, pearl necklaces, and other items typically associated with women. The attacks on the person’s character are brutal to say the least.

As I correct regarding my assessment that African American men and women are more critical when it comes to ensuring that men do not step outside of the Man Box? If you read the recent thread about “Miss Faye” and watched her video, it provides a great summarization of the points that I am attempting to make in this post.

Also, I would like to encourage other African American men that are reading this thread to respond. The opinions that I expressed in this post are my opinions only and that I have the utmost respect for African American members of the Cafe.

Jamie

Hello, Jamie!
Your topic was intriguing, so I’ll do my best to provide a proper response. To answer your question, yes, people in my community are quite intolerant when it comes to black men who step out of that fashion box. It all comes down to the ancient mindset that men have to be macho and ooze machismo, especially in appearance, and anything less is unacceptable. A good deal, if not a lot behind that mindset comes down to the longstanding opinion that clothing equates to sexual orientation which, of course, is wholly inaccurate, I’ve worked with gay men, and NONE of them would be caught dead in women’s clothing, but, the mindset persists and is a tough nut to crack.

The neighborhood I live in is all black and if I were seen off my street when in full regalia (dress, heels, jewelry, handbag), I’d be lucky if the worst thing that happened to me is if I were heckled and/or insulted, which is why I’m fortunate to only have to travel as far as my car when going on an outing. When away from the neighborhood and in mixed company, I come across lots of black people and no one gives me the time of day, and that’s because of said company and how no one wants to make a scene. On the flip side, I’ve had black women compliment me on my appearance, so it’s not complete intolerance, and, I’m grateful for that. Now, do I see things changing among my community? Probably not, but, I can hope that doesn’t last.

That's some sad commentary, Jeff, and I, too, hope it gets better with time. Persevere!

crfriend wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:32 pm That's some sad commentary, Jeff, and I, too, hope it gets better with time. Persevere!

It is what it is. I don’t worry about it.

In the White and Hispanic community I am fortunate that I have gotten virtually no pushback with my attire of wearing dresses and presenting en femme.
Jeff, I encourage you to persevere in your attire.

John

Jeff, please look after yourself. I admire you for your jaunts even more realising the risks you are running. Do you ever worry about meeting someone who knows you from your local community when out on your jaunts?

John: Thanks for the encouragement!

Mouse: In all the years I've been doing this, I've yet to run into anyone I know. Dumb luck!

Hi Jeff,

I want to thank you for taking the time to answer my question, although I am very saddened and disheartened by the answer. It is really concerning to me that anyone would do violence to another human being because they don’t like the way that a person dresses or presents them self. The person that is presenting in a gender non-stereotypical manner is not harming anyone and therefore I can’t understand why there are folks that will physically assault another person based upon how they dress and present themselves. Why is the gender non-conforming person so threatening to them? When women present in a gender non-stereotypical manner, other women do not physically attach them. Why does this only happen with men? I have heard stories about LGBT and gender non-conforming people being beaten and even killed in some of the Hillbilly sections of the United States. I believe that the UK is much more civilized in this regard and that these events do not occur there.

The occurrence of these events cause me to loose faith in humanity and leads me to the conclusion that Human Beings are no better than animals and may even be lower on the evolutionary scale. No wonder the ETs from other planets don’t want anything to do with our barbaric society. It is really a sad state of affairs. Can you believe that here we are in the 21st century and we are still dealing with these issues? Wake me up, it must be a bad dream!

Jamie

Don't despair, Jamie! The number of good and decent people in this world FAR outstrips the bad. It's just human nature that in some cultures, machismo is the be-all and end-all, but they are the minority. At the end of the day, it's no big deal, really, I've long accepted this situation in my community for what it is, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I am surprised and sorry to hear of that situation in your community Jeff and admire your jaunts even more now.
My community, of about 80% Aboriginal people, is generally conservative but thankfully very tolerant and accepting of nonconformance.

denimini wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 2:09 pm I am surprised and sorry to hear of that situation in your community Jeff and admire your jaunts even more now.
My community, of about 80% Aboriginal people, is generally conservative but thankfully very tolerant and accepting of nonconformance.

Glad to hear that. Meanwhile, I can’t change my community, so I make do as best I can and enjoy myself at the same time.

doing tourist stuff with my nephew
Post by big_daddy_thong » Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:59 pm

Recently, my nephew from Rhode Island came to visit. He is about 33 or so, So I took the day off from work to show him around town(Pittsburgh, PA)
But as a back story he was unaware of my skirt wearing habits. So when he arrived he offered to help me with some yard work around my home. I always wear skirts or skorts in the yard and my wife gives zero F's about my attire. We went to Lowe's for some supplies and came back home to work in the yard. Did I mention I was wearing a skirt all that time? But any way he did not have have any negative comments about my skirt. Besides, It was 88 degrees F. So we did out yard work early in the morning and since he had never been to Pittsburgh, I took him to a few tourist places around the city, all the time mind you while I was in my denim mini skirt. We went to get lunch in a part of town called the Strip District, which is also very touristy. We went to find a place to eat and at the door the lady whom happen to be black asked me if I was wearing a skirt. Now btw I'm black myself. Which was quite apparent that I had on a skirt and I said yes. She then said I needed to get some shorts on. I responded "Maybe you need to mind your own business! WHO MADE YOU THE FASHION POLICE? Needless to say My nephew and I went somewhere else.

big_daddy_thong wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 6:46 pm doing tourist stuff with my nephew
Post by big_daddy_thong » Wed Jun 26, 2024 6:59 pm

Recently, my nephew from Rhode Island came to visit. He is about 33 or so, So I took the day off from work to show him around town(Pittsburgh, PA)
But as a back story he was unaware of my skirt wearing habits. So when he arrived he offered to help me with some yard work around my home. I always wear skirts or skorts in the yard and my wife gives zero F's about my attire. We went to Lowe's for some supplies and came back home to work in the yard. Did I mention I was wearing a skirt all that time? But any way he did not have have any negative comments about my skirt. Besides, It was 88 degrees F. So we did out yard work early in the morning and since he had never been to Pittsburgh, I took him to a few tourist places around the city, all the time mind you while I was in my denim mini skirt. We went to get lunch in a part of town called the Strip District, which is also very touristy. We went to find a place to eat and at the door the lady whom happen to be black asked me if I was wearing a skirt. Now btw I'm black myself. Which was quite apparent that I had on a skirt and I said yes. She then said I needed to get some shorts on. I responded "Maybe you need to mind your own business! WHO MADE YOU THE FASHION POLICE? Needless to say My nephew and I went somewhere else.

Well said. You should stayed!