Hypothethical Question

[Grok]

Your choice of clothing such as skirts and adornment do not indicate that you are gender confused. It simply indicates that you prefer skirts and possibly other clothing items and adornments that are prevalent among the opposite biological sex.

Or used to be prevalent. Not so much any more.

I was born in 1956, so I remember when it used to be the case.

[Grok]

In my opinion, the moment we conflate skirts with gender, we've lost the average guy -- and that's where the target audience is. As I said, "lofty goals". Language is important.

If your sartorial choices reflect you as an individual, rather than you as a member of a category....then skirts are for anybody who wants to wear them.

[Seb]

Already sounds quite a lot like my current wardrobe, for good or bad. I like dark colours and black, and I feel rather uncomfortable in white despite having worked in white scrubs for 15 years...
I am trying to work colours into my wardrobe, mostly blue, green and red, but some pastel t-shirts have made their way into my daily rotation. My wife likes colours, I do too, just so many years of dressing as a hard-rocker(as much as dark band t-shirts and black jeans counts at least) does come with a tall fence to climb.
What we also need to keep in mind as much as we dress for ourselves, we are also dressing for the women we love(or want to find). I would not want my wife to start wearing exclusively men's sweatpants and oversized t-shirts/sweaters so there is some merit in giving some effort to find things she likes on me and she will keep putting on clothes that I like to see her in too.

[denimini]

The hypothetical sounds very much like the conventions of real life ............. which I manage to sucessfully skirt around.

[jamie001]

The hypothetical sounds very much like the conventions of real life ............. which I manage to sucessfully skirt around.

Yes the hypothethical is very real in regarding to men being relegated to trousers, boring drab colors, and thick materials many times with no skin showing accept for their hands while their female counterparts have bare shoulders, sandals, and no noose tied around their neck. Men are expected to maintain this conservative look even in extremely hot weather.

Is assume that no pun is intended regarding the “skirt around” comment. LOL.

[FLbreezy]

In my opinion, the moment we conflate skirts with gender, we've lost the average guy -- and that's where the target audience is. As I said, "lofty goals". Language is important.

Yes! This is my issue with wearing skirts meaning I'm being "gender non-conformant". That just reinforces the stereotype that skirts (and more) must be a feminine presentation of some kind. The sooner we get over that the better.

[jamie001]

In my opinion, the moment we conflate skirts with gender, we've lost the average guy -- and that's where the target audience is. As I said, "lofty goals". Language is important.

Yes! This is my issue with wearing skirts meaning I'm being "gender non-conformant". That just reinforces the stereotype that skirts (and more) must be a feminine presentation of some kind. The sooner we get over that the better.

It is not possible to quickly get over it. Women had to fight the same battle when the started wearing trousers. They were gender nonconforming and were also called lesbians. They had thick skins and fought the battle. That is when women can wear anything that they want today and no one bats an eye. Men need to do the same and start with GNC. After a generation or two, skirts will be normalized for men. There are dues to pay for everything. Nothing comes free.

Also there is absolutely nothing wrong with being gender nonconforming, since by definition we are gender nonconforming when we don’t look like and act like a stereotypical male as defined by society. If you don’t want to be called ?GNC, you will need to wait for society to declare skirts as a man’s garment. I am not going to hold my breath or wait for that to happen.

[Dust]

Sadly, for most guys at the moment, "style" is not very high on the hierarchy of needs. Most of us are worried about where our next meal is going to come from from and how we're going to pay the monthly rent.

Guys are more likely to be the primary breadwinner, which means needing to hold down that job is more important than fashion freedom. I think this is why there seem to be three types of members here:

1. Retirees and those close enough they could hang it up at any time
2. Young, single guys with few financial obligations
3. Guys who only wear skirts in their free time

There are exceptions, but not many.

[Dust]

In my opinion, the moment we conflate skirts with gender, we've lost the average guy -- and that's where the target audience is. As I said, "lofty goals". Language is important.

Yes! This is my issue with wearing skirts meaning I'm being "gender non-conformant". That just reinforces the stereotype that skirts (and more) must be a feminine presentation of some kind. The sooner we get over that the better.

It is not possible to quickly get over it. Women had to fight the same battle when the started wearing trousers. They were gender nonconforming and were also called lesbians. They had thick skins and fought the battle. That is when women can wear anything that they want today and no one bats an eye. Men need to do the same and start with GNC. After a generation or two, skirts will be normalized for men. There are dues to pay for everything. Nothing comes free.

Also there is absolutely nothing wrong with being gender nonconforming, since by definition we are gender nonconforming when we don’t look like and act like a stereotypical male as defined by society. If you don’t want to be called ?GNC, you will need to wait for society to declare skirts as a man’s garment. I am not going to hold my breath or wait for that to happen.

While the plain meaning of "gender non-conforming" seems to include any guy in any skirt (maybe including kilts), the term has gained connotations many here would like to avoid.

It's true this will take time. We've been at it for a while, and we still have more to go. But letting others dictate the language will slow down our progress.

[Grok]

In my opinion, the moment we conflate skirts with gender, we've lost the average guy -- and that's where the target audience is. As I said, "lofty goals". Language is important.

The trick is to make skirts seem normal for the average guy. The average un-GNC guy.

And this is hard not only because of the Taboo, but we need to make something seem normal even though that something is a novelty for most men.

[crfriend]

The trick is to make skirts seem normal for the average guy. The average un-GNC guy.

And this is hard not only because of the Taboo, but we need to make something seem normal even though that something is a novelty for most men.

Precisely -- mainly because there are one heck of a lot more guys out there who are perfectly happy being guys than there are who are confused or uncertain about the matter. It's a game of numbers, and we're after the numbers in order to normalise the concept. This is what the gender-uncertain and the trans-* activists don't seem to understand because they're fighting their own fight for their own reasons.

[FLbreezy]

When I'm wearing a skirt, I am being gender conforming...I'm being a man and living how I want to live and not accepting a label that does not apply to me. Who knows how much time I have left on this miserable rock we live on, I'm certainly not waiting years for it to be "normal".

[denimini]

........... but we need to make something seem normal even though that something is a novelty for most men.

Which to me brings us back to the original hypothetical; to make skirts seem normal to most men they would loose a lot of what a lot of us love about skirts.
To me it is not a matter of making something become normal but getting others to accept something that is different. I believe that the latter is what most of us here are achieving, which is good.

[Myopic Bookworm]

We can used “newspeak” to our advantage. Men that loose touch with new concepts are going to get left behind and will stagnate while others will move forward and accomplish their goals.

No, "newspeak" is well discredited by anybody over about 50.
We have vastly different backgrounds, upbringings, and surroundings we grew up in. You're not going to convince me one whit about "Gender Confusion" being a real thing for the vast majority of the population. I understand statistics because I have to work with numbers all the time.

Over 50? Speak for yourself, grandad! I'm happy to explore new forms of terminology (and criticize them if I think they're cr*p), and I've been 48 for over a decade.

GNC is surely Gender Non Conformity, not Gender Confusion. I'm not at all confused, but I'm definitely nonconformist.

[Coder]

Can't you have your cake and eat it too? In today's society - wearing a skirt as a man is gender non-conforming. But it's just a definition - not an identity, flag, etc... it can be just a descriptor. Eventually one would hope it would go away as men adopt skirts and more colorful styles - but you can't deny it isn't real only because it is a simple definition. Some people take it further - I choose not to. What others make of it, oh well.

I don't want my clothes, my interests, to define me - I do want my works (one could say art), words, actions to define me.