Christian Bretheren lumping us in with the crossdressers again.

[timemeddler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aauwD6_nmJc&t=243s

I left a comment, not a super well thought out video.

[STEVIE]

Not crossdressers, just anyone who doesn't quite fit into their world view and as such consigned to whatever.
Call it what it is, b******t and leave it at that.
Steve

[Uncle Al]

This is my reply to the Prude;
I totally disagree with your 'presumptions' that a boy, or man, who wears a skirt is wanting to appear female. A) I'm 72 years old male and a grandpa. B) My wife initially had problems with me wearing a skirt until she found out that other people accepted me for who I was, not what I wore. We were married 49 years and 2 months when she passed. I've been wearing kilts, skirts and the occasional dress for more than 25 years. You're so far out in left field, lumping all men in skirts & dresses as LGBTQ+ it is sickening. Does my skirt wearing cause you pain? Am I hurting others when I wear a skirt? How about a kilt? I do have Scottish and Irish heritage but, to you, that validates me wearing a kilt. A KILT IS A SKIRTED GARMENT! Get over yourself!

Uncle Al

[FranTastic444]

Videos like this just reaffirm my staunch atheism

[moonshadow]

Retracted

[Grok]

Looking at the comments, there seems to be a latent acceptance of MIS (at least among a few), provided there is no attempt to pass as women. That is grounds for optimism.

[Coder]

…provided it's already accepted as part of local culture, though I do see a "chicken and egg" paradox forming here, where as how does one change culture without trendsetters that are willing to buck established norms?

That’s the part I’ve been struggling with - because I do think in 100 years it will be more common, and what’s so wrong with being a trendsetter? Does that mean true christians are to avoid trends, and blend into society? What does that say of people who buck those trends, are they heathens to be damned in the fires of hell? Being a bit sarcastic on that last point as it is a deep discussion that this forum really doesn’t need to get into. But at the same time, not an easy discussion to bring up in christian forums because the internet lacks nuance. I contemplated bringing a topic like this up in a catholic forum, but I just don’t think people can wrap their minds around men doing quirky fashion. It just doesn’t exist in their worldview.

[Grok]

Coder-"quirky fashion" for men.

But we have been seeing a bit of that in recent years. And not just skirted rigs, but also personal expression in the form of jewelry, nail polish, etc.

Occurred to me we may see different forms of personal expression developing in parallel. For example, one man might choose to wear a skirt, while another wears jewelry with pants.

[crfriend]

Looking at the comments, there seems to be a latent acceptance of MIS (at least among a few), provided there is no attempt to pass as women. That is grounds for optimism.

It is worth recalling that if one dissects Deuteronomy with a critical mind -- and bearing in mind the gaffes in translation -- it's an extended parable about truth and not taking part in deception. It's guidance on how to behave in a society instead of as a wild animal. Much of it is valid, if taken with a grain of salt; some, however, is just obsolete doctrine -- like all of the Old Testament.

This exercise yields interesting conclusions for the mentally adept, especially as it applies to role-playing and acting. Is the TV/CD who is "trying to pass" attempting to deceive? For personal gain? If one, then he may be doing it as "performance art" or for fun. If both, then he's clearly in the wrong as far as scripture goes. On the other hand, the typical bloke-in-a-skirt is not attempting to deceive at all and is therefore clear of any judgment.

So, where's the disconnect? The disconnect is social conditioning and nothing more -- and should be easy to overcome. Unfortunately, humans are herd animals and perceptions die very, very hard. Thus, since we're all acclimated to the unassailable FACT that men do not wear skirts because those are the sole province of women, we tend to get defensive -- and it does not matter that the guy is not attempting to deceive us; we're roped in by the perception, which happens to be wrong in many cultures other than our own.

With paragraph 2 above in mind, how would one judge, say, the character of "Mrs. Doubtfile"? (Who was an entirely sympathetic character.)

[STEVIE]

With paragraph 2 above in mind, how would one judge, say, the character of "Mrs. Doubtfile"? (Who was an entirely sympathetic character.)

Daniel/Mrs Doubtfire would be consigned to hell on 2 counts, divorcee and cross-dresser too, salvation, no chance!
Sympathy and empathy are way beyond the tiny little minds of these people.
Steve

[JohnH]

I watched the.podcast and this lady is saying that we men are not to deceive others to believe we are women. I wear dresses and heels but I make it abundantly clear I am a man and not a woman.

I regularly post on crossdressers.com but use my real masculine name and list my preferred masculine pronouns in the signature block.

John

[timemeddler]

what's scary is when she says kilts skirts aren't acceptable in our culture, UH yes the are, our culture has been past that point for decades, culture accepts flat out changing gender. Another weak view of hers is that women were wearing pants weren't trying to look like men, even though that was common complaint back then apparently. Sounds like a woman trying to tell men what they can't do, which is another thing women aren't supposed to do in the bible.

[JohnH]

How are skirts and dresses supposed to become acceptable attire for men unless we pioneers start wearing them?
And how did women gain acceptance for wearing trousers without a few avant-garde individuals wearing them? There was considerably more disapproval for women wearing trousers in the beginning than what I have encountered wearing dresses, which is almost nonexistent.
I DO wish the practice of men taking on feminine names and pretending to be women while wearing "feminine" clothing would disappear. I would like the fetish part of wearing "feminine" clothing to disappear in order for skirted garments to become acceptable attire for men.

John

[Barleymower]

How are skirts and dresses supposed to become acceptable attire for men unless we pioneers start wearing them?
And how did women gain acceptance for wearing trousers without a few avant-garde individuals wearing them? There was considerably more disapproval for women wearing trousers in the beginning than what I have encountered wearing dresses, which is almost nonexistent.
I DO wish the practice of men taking on feminine names and pretending to be women while wearing "feminine" clothing would disappear. I would like the fetish part of wearing "feminine" clothing to disappear in order for skirted garments to become acceptable attire for men.

John

John I agree with the sentiment and getting rid of stigma but people must be free to express themselves.

[Jim]

Videos like this just reaffirm my staunch atheism

Should folks like Pol Pot be used to reaffirm my rejection of atheism? There seem to be misguided folks in any belief system.

This is not the way to win acceptance.