Skirt wearing boys in Japan

[Barleymower]

A skirt wearing boy featured in Shiga's human rights week ad

https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/15081562

I like the ad because it features a girl and boy in trousers and a girl and boy in skirts.
The boy in the skirt is a sturdy lad, showing that skirt wearing can be for big boys. I don't think they needed to bring sexual diversity into it with the rainbow. They are still focusing on the link between clothes and sex. It must be that women's clothes are sexualised and mens clothes are practical.

[denimini]

Great. Seems to be happening in many countries.
https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/13060857

[Uncle Al]

Interesting
The article from Japan was published December 26, 2023.
The article from Taiwan was published July 24, 2019.

Seems like it has taken 4 years for Japan to 'catch up' with the rest of us

Uncle Al

[crfriend]

The article from Japan was published December 26, 2023.
The article from Taiwan was published July 24, 2019.

Was the original even attributed properly?

[Uncle Al]

This is the basis on my reply, as the headers of the articles;
(copied from each page)

Skirt-wearing boy featured in Shiga’s Human Rights Week ad

By MASAAKI TAKEBE/ Staff Writer

December 26, 2023 at 07:00 JST

Boys OK in skirts in Taiwan school’s gender-neutral uniform plan

THOMSON REUTERS FOUNDATION

July 24, 2019 at 18:15 JST

Uncle Al

[crfriend]

A fast scan of both articles yields no solid correlation, especially any form of plagiarism. There was a link to the older article -- which was about a "gender neutral" uniform option being contemplated in Taiwan (with the usual sexual contamination) is the newer one, which was primarily about inclusivity.

I do not "smell a rat" here.

[Stu]

I read the article and the the original research, which is in Japanese. The most interesting - and significant - aspect of this development is that it states 11.8% of schools (primary and secondary) where boys are permitted to wear skirts report actually having male students doing precisely. So nearly one-in-eight schools in one Japanese region report that they have boys turning up wearing uniform skirts. That's MIND-BLOWING! If that's happening now, it has taken away the stigma and the numbers will only increase.

Now, I know that Japan is an eastern culture and they haven't been subject to the longstanding western taboo of males wearing skirts, but what happens in Japanese youth culture usually floats across the ocean to the West in due course, so it's just a matter of time until we see this phenomenon here.

[Barleymower]

I read that too. The online survey covered the whole country. However, I think numbers could be accounted for by the transgender population.
OK it may not be big numbers and they may not be all trans but it is better than the UK. In the UK no boy would wear a girls uniform in senior school, trans or otherwise. That would social suicide. Junior schools here are less judgmental and occasionally boys wear skirts.
Either way, times are changing, the pace may seem like snails pace, especially for us, who want acceptance now but in real terms there is progress that has not been seen for 100 years and that is amazing.

[Myopic Bookworm]

My kids' school recently posted a head teacher's message about sixth-form (i.e. roughly age 16-18) uniform standards, and I noticed that they referred neutrally to "students who choose to wear skirts to school". As far as I am aware, they have at least one femme-presenting transgender student, who I suspect is among those testing the regulations as to skirt length (though my 16-year-old, who is flirting with nonbinaryness, said dismissively "I don't wear skirts", despite having one in his room).

[crfriend]

I read that too. The online survey covered the whole country. However, I think numbers could be accounted for by the transgender population.
OK it may not be big numbers and they may not be all trans but it is better than the UK. In the UK no boy would wear a girls uniform in senior school, trans or otherwise. That would social suicide. Junior schools here are less judgmental and occasionally boys wear skirts.

Unless we have actual population numbers (i.e. "head-counts") we cannot know whether trans-* plays a role in this or not. All we have is "1 in 8 districts report having boys wearing skirts" (12.5%). We don't know the student population count for each of those, so 12.5% of boys wearing skirts is virtually impossible -- and way outside the population likely to be trans-* (which, at a guess I'd put at 3-5%). So, the upshot is that we don't know because we have an incomplete picture.

Either way, times are changing, the pace may seem like snails pace, especially for us, who want acceptance now but in real terms there is progress that has not been seen for 100 years and that is amazing.

This I'll agree with, but being a guy in a skirt still can be perilous. I picked up some heckling last night when out with my lady-friend, which I dispatched easily and with a smile and some humour, but she was badly thrown by it and reverted to the position of, "I don't know that I can handle this!" [0] This put me into a funk, and I spent the night busy trying to not throw up dinner, but got to wondering this morning whether I am really willing to abandon 20+ years of stylistic freedom only to be put back into the coffin that "male fashion" (an oxymoron!) is today. This may well kill the relationship. That's how deeply imbued the false thinking is about men in skirts. Very bluntly put, until "Men In Skirts" can disassociate completely from trans-* we're never going to move the needle. The general public needs to have the point driven home that "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" and what we're doing has to do with style not "alignment" or "sexuality"; until that can be done, women just aren't going to accept it and will keep putting us back into "the box".


[0] The "offending outfit" was my mini-dress, worn as a tunic with my white ruffle-shirt underneath for warmth, black cable-knit tights, and my red heels for a splash of colour. The grief was about my shoes and "the puffy shirt" (with the inevitable Seinfeld reference). The grief stopped when the two guys who were trying to shame me got a look at my size and figured that they'd best not push too hard. Then my lady-friend tried the same thing using different tactics when we got back to the car.

[Barleymower]

Carl I said "could account for". I was not not saying the it "is" accounted for by the trans population.
I agree that MIS are not pertaining to the trans group. But we are caught in the cross fire between the conservatives and the progressive LGBTQ+ group.

We will not be driving home any points with the general public our voice is too small. As I see it we have limited choices:
1. March on, wear what you want. Take the flack and sacrifice whatever gets in the way of that.
2. Blend in, become the "grey man". That is wear bland in offensive clothes that they say we can wear
3. Join the LGBTQ+ group and fight for universal acceptance and wear what you want.
4. Give up and put your trousers on.

There are surely other routes to take but that in general terms sums up the position. Unless you disagree?

[crfriend]

Carl I said "could account for". I was not not saying the it "is" accounted for by the trans population.

I wanted to drive the point home for those who may have glossed the precise verbiage. That's all.

1. March on, wear what you want. Take the flack and sacrifice whatever gets in the way of that.
2. Blend in, become the "grey man". That is wear bland in offensive clothes that they say we can wear
3. Join the LGBTQ+ group and fight for universal acceptance and wear what you want.
4. Give up and put your trousers on.

That's only three options because two and four are effectively the same thing. One winds up "back in the coffin". Personally, I find that unacceptable.

Three would only draw further ire from the reactionaries and would not be effective in what passes for modern society which is in a highly reactive mode now. It would likely work contrary to our desires.

One looks to be the best option -- to be the rogue, the maverick, the one that stands out. Some folks respect that, and I have several fairly right-wing friends who accept me completely as I am, so not all is lost. Where it gets dicey is the idiot on the street, and that's where "street smarts" come in as a defence. The drawback is, "Get ready to be lonely."

[pelmut]

[...]
Unless we have actual population numbers (i.e. "head-counts") we cannot know whether trans-* plays a role in this or not. All we have is "1 in 8 districts report having boys wearing skirts" (12.5%).

At the last census in the UK, about 0.5% of the population said they were transgender. About half of those were MtF and half were FtM.

[crfriend]

At the last census in the UK, about 0.5% of the population said they were transgender. About half of those were MtF and half were FtM.

Gracias, Pelmut. That's a number I was looking for. In other words, it's a vanishingly small percentage. (Actually smaller than I would have assumed!)

The above does not mean that we should not be sensitive to the trans-*'s problems in life -- we should be -- but we're in a separate fight. I'm strongly if favour of the old adage, "Live and let live" -- and offer assistance where possible."

[denimini]

At the last census in the UK, about 0.5% of the population said they were transgender. About half of those were MtF and half were FtM.

I would hazzard a guess that men wearing skirts would be somewhat less than that, assuming that half were MtF that is one man in 400. One may not know by appearance of a person being transgender but we would notice a man wearing a skirt. Do we see many men wearing skirts amongst the 1000's of people we see in our travels? We are in a tiny minority and that is mentally healthy for all and part of the fun.