The Drone Zone

[Grok]

The skirted gent is in attendance. But all of the women refuse to dance with him.

-His presence is tolerated. But he is alone in a corner, sipping a drink. Being ignored.

[Grok]

How I imagine some sort of skirted rig gaining traction (within our life times).

It will actually be saying a lot if some rig becomes okay in the eyes of some young women. That is, a substantial number of young women are willing to date a skirted young man.

As to which particular design, well, we have speculated in other threads.

[STEVIE]

"

The skirted gent is in attendance. But all of the women refuse to dance with him.
-His presence is tolerated. But he is alone in a corner, sipping a drink. Being ignored.

pelmut » Sat Aug 12, 2023 9:57 am
At Sidmouth Folk Festival last week there were so many men in skirts or kilts that I gave up counting them. Some were 'costume' but the vast majority appeared to be personal preference. I managed to have a chat with some of the wearers and they all said how comfortable skirts were and how good they were for dancing."

On the face of it, Pelmut's report would appear to refute Grok's, however, let's examine a little.
Is a folk festival typical of regular social interaction and the implied acceptance here signify a step forward?
Costumes aside, who were the skirted males dancing with, partners, friends or complete strangers?
If "strangers", did the relationship progress?
We cannot and will probably never know all the answers. One can only hope for the positives in life.
My heart is certainly with Pelmut on this but my instincts favour the sad reality as portrayed by Grok.
In a typical nightclub in most of the western world, the skirted male will indeed be the spare part in the corner of the room.
As for the festival, we need all the joy we can get so this is no criticism!
Steve.

[crfriend]

My heart is certainly with Pelmut on this but my instincts favour the sad reality as portrayed by Grok.
In a typical nightclub in most of the western world, the skirted male will indeed be the spare part in the corner of the room.

I'm in this particular corner as well and cannot say with any certainty whatsoever that I'll ever find another partner before the day I kick off this rock. But, I should not give up hope -- and I'm not going to give up my skirts!

[pelmut]

[...]
On the face of it, Pelmut's report would appear to refute Grok's, however, let's examine a little.
Is a folk festival typical of regular social interaction and the implied acceptance here signify a step forward?
Costumes aside, who were the skirted males dancing with, partners, friends or complete strangers?
If "strangers", did the relationship progress?
[..]

Usually people dance as a couple for the first few dances, then they separate and dance with others (some of whom are friends and some are complete strangers).  There was no discernable difference between the way skirted and non-skirted men were treated and I can't remember seeing a skirted man sitting out.  In some places I could imagine a man in a skirt being initially regarded as somethng a bit odd, but the sort of company that would ostracise him is not the sort of company I would want to keep.

As for being shunned by the women, my experience is quite the opposite; the novelty of dancing with a man in a skirt was something that appealed to them.

[STEVIE]

In some places I could imagine a man in a skirt being initially regarded as somethng a bit odd, but the sort of company that would ostracise him is not the sort of company I would want to keep.

Sadly Pelmut, the "some" places are likely the majority and the experiences you have had the rarity.
The young buck looking for feminine favour would not be helping himself by including a skirt or dress in his wooing ensemble.
As for "company", he may not have the luxury of choice either.
Steve.

[pelmut]

I think a lot depends on the prevailing circumstances.  A young lad wearing a skirt at a folk festival would certainly be attractive to the girls, similarly at a jazz festival, a pop music festival and many other places where individuality and freedom of expression is appreciated.  On the other hand, in places where conformity is the norm, such as quasi-military groups, football crowds and other not-particularly-intellectual events, I could imagine a skirt would be far less acceptable -- at least in the present climate.  Perhaps skirts will also be accepted by these groups if they become more mainstream in a few years' time.

[STEVIE]

other not-particularly-intellectual events,

Otherwise, known as any city centre venue/hotspot on a regular weekend.
Interesting point, how many youngsters, eg 18-25 would you reckon attend jazz or folk festivals?
Let's say in contrast to Glastonbury, not a lot would be my guess and I doubt if there are many likely lads in skirts there either.
I must apologise if I appear to be nitpicking but this outward show of acceptance really makes me wonder.
Somehow I feel a degree of scepticism about the sincerity of the motives but then again I have never witnessed nor experienced such for myself.
Steve.

[pelmut]

In terms of actual numbers I would imagine the city centre hot-spots would attract far more revellers, but the festivals do attract a sizeable minority.  The answer is to avoid the unintellectual hot-spots if you want to wear a skirt -- or if you want to be unconforming to their norms in any way.  Even being old, wearing the wrong type of hat or bending down to tie your shoelace could trigger trouble in places like that.

[Faldaguy]

Years ago before Harbin Hot Spring burned, there were Contra Dances and other 'free' dances; now I'm told something called "Ecstatic" dance is also present -- and MIS then, and now were not infrequent.

Subsequently, I've been asked a couple of times by staff in thrift shops if I was a "dancer" since I was skirted; and told by one that their dance group often had men attend wearing skirts. I don't know the details, but it does seem that there is a correlation between MIS and some dance club activity. Perhaps it is a venue to enhance 'mate finding! And, likewise it seems Festivals may open opportunities to connect.

I wonder if the fellow on the side-lines is due to being skirted, or merely his own reticence? There aren't a lot of us MIS -- so we don't need too many gals open to such adventures! Has anyone tried the new method (Online dating sites), with clear disclosure?

[STEVIE]

I wonder if the fellow on the side-lines is due to being skirted, or merely his own reticence? There aren't a lot of us MIS -- so we don't need too many gals open to such adventures! Has anyone tried the new method (Online dating sites), with clear disclosure?

I feel we are missing something here and the key is being in a minority both by skirts and arena.
The majority is not us of the Cafe but the boys of today out to find a girl, (in the main), of particular qualities.
He is the majority but his odds of success are dramatically altered by his choice of attire.
Skirts and dresses simply get him into the endangered species league.
As for "gals open to adventure", I ask again, how many of our partners knew about the skirts in advance of anything else?
Strangely, I feel I already know and it is not cause for optimism.
Steve.

[Modoc]

I don't have much to offer with regard to the thinking of men and women but I have made a few observations of young men wearing skirts who were with young women at the time. Not that I have seen it a lot so these observations are far from being proof of anything. On several occasions, 5 or 6 maybe, I've seen young men wearing skirts who were with a young woman who was sometimes wearing a skirt but not always. Neither was wearing anything noticeably remarkable and would probably be considered dressed in ordinary everyday attire. I have also had the occasion to see several people in groups or pairs where the men and women were dressed in what would be called goth style. I would say I have seen this dozens of times over the last 5 yrs or maybe even longer. Often times the men in the groups were wearing kilts or skirts with lots of chains etc. The women would be wearing similar types of clothes. Both would have on excessive makeup and extravagant hairdos. I guess if there's any point to this, it's that young people and people who make it a point to buck conventional dress codes are more open to connecting with like-minded people than not. I would think that in this era of multiple platforms for meeting up that men in skirts would be able to find partners who wouldn't be opposed to their personal preferences. Maybe I'm a way too naive and too far removed from reality to get a sense of just how big a hurdle this can be.

[Faldaguy]

I wonder if the fellow on the side-lines is due to being skirted, or merely his own reticence? There aren't a lot of us MIS -- so we don't need too many gals open to such adventures! Has anyone tried the new method (Online dating sites), with clear disclosure?

I feel we are missing something here and the key is being in a minority both by skirts and arena.
The majority is not us of the Cafe but the boys of today out to find a girl, (in the main), of particular qualities.
He is the majority but his odds of success are dramatically altered by his choice of attire.
Skirts and dresses simply get him into the endangered species league.
As for "gals open to adventure", I ask again, how many of our partners knew about the skirts in advance of anything else?
Strangely, I feel I already know and it is not cause for optimism.
Steve.

I agree the balance of searching goes on in the vast majority where most men and women are following the common conventions of the day -- men in pants, women as they want. My point was to suggest things may not be quite so hopeless for those who are not observing the conventions of the day. We do find that there seems to be a match for some of the most unusual and odd needs. That is not to say it is not more difficult to meet ones wishes for love and companionship when we add what is perceived by many to be 'weird' into the mix.

I can say that my spouse did not know of my interest in skirts -- I did not even know it. Would it have made a difference -- that I can't project either, so I think it is a mute question. You are one of the few, almost unique individuals who knew, disclosed, and have not met with concurrence -- so, that is not an adequate sampling to base things on either. Nor, can we really know if Carl, & the few here who do wear skirts all or most of the time in public, would fare much differently in pants -- the factors are vast, and we as individuals probably focus on, blame the skirts and perceived attitude of women's romantic response to us, on the skirts -- which may be accurate, or it could be a thousand other things. We do not have a viable sample size, just speculation. Until we have 10% or more of men normally wearing skirts to test the hypothesis, I'd like to think there is still a happy match for the few of us still searching.

What token data I can give you, in my instance, though neither of us had considered the issue of non-conforming attire, we were both rather independent thinkers and would take on the masses on matters of what we deemed ethical matters. Also, it was my spouse who truly introduced me to skirts, though I don't think it was her intent, by gifting me with a beach wrap, that was effectively a mini-skirt! [As noted, I had played with female clothes for a short period found in a play bin when I was about 8.] I don't think this is particularly germane data, but my spouses attitude on other matters might be a relevant factor.

'tis late, my apology but I'm going to hit send without an edit...

[zjo]

I was going to reply to this but in the end I made a new thread viewtopic.php?t=24200

Reading women’s reactions to this young guy showcasing skirts makes me think that standing proudly of the crowd might actually boost one’s chances of finding an SO. I remember when I was a teenager computers were for nerds only and guys gave me **** about my interest in them but funnily enough I was actually quite popular with girls because I was personal, didn’t care about others negative opinions and didn’t try to blend in the mass.

Reading youngsters comments gives me actually the impression that they perceive a man wearing a skirt an “alfa” because he does what others don’t dare and being one seems to be what most young men are striving for.

[STEVIE]

You are one of the few, almost unique individuals who knew, disclosed, and have not met with concurrence -- so, that is not an adequate sampling to base things on either.

OK based on accepted statistics, around 3% of straight British men cross-dress and while some call irrelevant, it is all we have.
However, there is also the "lies and damn lies" factor which leads me to suspect a much greater proportion.
That 3% alone makes the numbers of "men in skirts" look pretty insignificant and achieving the 10% you mentioned even less likely.
As for my "uniqueness", that lies somewhere in my candour, not my present situation.
Sure it is all conjecture, except our own living experiences and I will refute absolutely that I place the reasons for my problems solely on my skirts.

Reading women’s reactions to this young guy showcasing skirts makes me think that standing proudly of the crowd might actually boost one’s chances of finding an SO.

Sorry ZJO, but the women are supportive of that one guy who is showcasing skirts that will dwindle to a huge degree when they are in the situation of choosing a significant other.
Put the dude out in the real world and see how he fares there, just not the same at all.

Steve.