Let's put together a timeline of male skirtedness

[Coder]

Ok folks - hear me out. Most of the time the news gets skirted outfits dead wrong, and frankly I've made my own gaffe's and such. I think it would be a great project to put together a visual timeline - maybe start out as text collected in this thread, and eventually put into a visual representation. The task- create a timeline of men's fashion through the years focusing specifically on unbifuricated garments. The idea behind it: to put into perspective how narrow-minded people are today, dead set in victorian/1950's mentality, and how their worldview is so restricted based on the past 200 years or so (or longer?) of wester influence. This chart could be added to the Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_skirts), if the source data is there as well.

I don't see this changing the world, and frankly someone may have done this already. I just think it would be neat, but I don't have all the time in the world to do all the research, so figured it could be a collective effort.

Thoughts? Waste of time?

[Barleymower]

Coder you are looking at a highly complex question, to which there is no definitive answer. Like you say there are some distinct markers over the years. Who is to say which event has greater value?

Possibly the last men in a skirt in the visual timeline are my son and I last Saturday in Brighton. I have a cotton / silk mix knee length from Next with a green polo from Fred Perry and some new mushroom boots made by my cousin. My son has his favourite kilt / tarten skirt with a tasteful green Minecraft shirt.

Screenshot_20230709_141650_Gallery.jpg

We did not see any other men who identify as men. So maybe the last?

[greenboots]

BM: if there was a Like button I’d click it.

[STEVIE]

Coder,
Sometime in our ancient past humans began to cover their bodies, one assumes with animal pelts and skins.
They must have developed the technology to cure them to some degree and then to shape them into rudimentary clothing,
The skirt/kilt, unbifurcated garment must have been created around that time.
Simplest bit of kit ever is likely why it has developed over the years.
That's an approximation of the beginning, the rest is history and I have doubts about using ancient male garments as a good basis for Men in Skirts today.

We did not see any other men who identify as men. So maybe the last?

This however, father and son, as natural as you like.
Far from the last, it may very well be where the future of men in skirts actually lies.
Hope!
Steve

[Barleymower]

Coder,
Sometime in our ancient past humans began to cover their bodies, one assumes with animal pelts and skins.
They must have developed the technology to cure them to some degree and then to shape them into rudimentary clothing,
The skirt/kilt, unbifurcated garment must have been created around that time.
Simplest bit of kit ever is likely why it has developed over the years.
That's an approximation of the beginning, the rest is history and I have doubts about using ancient male garments as a good basis for Men in Skirts today.

We did not see any other men who identify as men. So maybe the last?

This however, father and son, as natural as you like.
Far from the last, it may very well be where the future of men in skirts actually lies.
Hope!
Steve

Stevie I think there is an elephant in the room that needs to be aired when it comes to men in skirts. That is "women won't date men in skirts". Unless that happens men will never wear skirts. I only needed to convince one woman. The rest of mankind needs to convince the rest of womenkind.

Women are not bad people so the question is "why are they reluctant to date men in skirts?"I know some say its fine and for others its a flat no.

Going back to Coders original subject. Here are men and women in 1300's

Screenshot_20230716_072640_Gallery.jpg

There are differences but enough choice for it not to matter

[rode_kater]

That is "women won't date men in skirts".

This is obviously a gross generalisation, this forum has plenty of counter examples.

As the saying goes, there's a lid for every jar. And I think later generations are going to find it easier.

[crfriend]

I think there is an elephant in the room that needs to be aired when it comes to men in skirts. That is "women won't date men in skirts". Unless that happens men will never wear skirts. I only needed to convince one woman. The rest of mankind needs to convince the rest of womenkind.

Women are not bad people so the question is "why are they reluctant to date men in skirts?"I know some say its fine and for others its a flat no.

This is, indeed, the metaphorical "elephant", as I am finding out first-hand as I seek out another mate. Most of the time I suspect I'm wasting my time. I've already had to abandon two attempts, and am hoping I don't have to scuttle a third for the same reason -- womenfolk refuse to understand the matter and are "put off" by what we wear. This, even when all other signs were positive!

[Barleymower]

I think there is an elephant in the room that needs to be aired when it comes to men in skirts. That is "women won't date men in skirts". Unless that happens men will never wear skirts. I only needed to convince one woman. The rest of mankind needs to convince the rest of womenkind.

Women are not bad people so the question is "why are they reluctant to date men in skirts?"I know some say its fine and for others its a flat no.

This is, indeed, the metaphorical "elephant", as I am finding out first-hand as I seek out another mate. Most of the time I suspect I'm wasting my time. I've already had to abandon two attempts, and am hoping I don't have to scuttle a third for the same reason -- womenfolk refuse to understand the matter and are "put off" by what we wear. This, even when all other signs were positive!

I remember Carl I had a friend when I was 20. He never could get a girlfriend. My girlfriend at the time said he's a good guy but no girl would like him. He's still single.
It's only my opinion but it's my observation that girls can find a partner easier than men. Men are not as picky as women and are prepared to date girls who are not desirable, in looks or personality. Women on the other had will not (mostly) date undesirables. In my opinion men in skirts are largely on the undesirables list at this time. Women do not want to be judged by other women and face embarrassment.
I think this is the mountain we must climb, men in skirts need to become desirable. Make MIS desirable and everything will change.
Thus is not a PC view but actions speak louder than words.

[STEVIE]

This is obviously a gross generalisation, this forum has plenty of counter examples.

Sorry RK but not as sweeping really.
On the forum some guys have partners who are supportive which is a rather different scenario from finding a guy in a skirt romantically attractive at the outset.
Simple question how many of those being supportive would be there had they known about the skirt preferences in advance.
We can hope for change but in the here and now, a guy wearing a skirt or dress will be very fortunate, rich or both to be considered as desirable by anything more than the rarest of women.
The fact is that there are men here who either keep it a complete secret or severely curtail their skirting due to partner/wife disapproval.
My wife did know in advance and she has never been able to accept it on anything but the most superficial level.
I have plenty female friends and acquaintances but I doubt if any one of them would see the skirts as a plus factor even if I was single.
If I sound a tad bitter then you would be quite correct, I am.
Steve.

[crfriend]

It's only my opinion but it's my observation that girls can find a partner easier than men. Men are not as picky as women and are prepared to date girls who are not desirable, in looks or personality. Women on the other had will not (mostly) date undesirables. In my opinion men in skirts are largely on the undesirables list at this time. Women do not want to be judged by other women and face embarrassment.

There is plenty of evidence, both anecdotal and public record, that would state that women may, indeed, prefer "undesirables" as partners. Witness the obsession with "bad boys" -- and then women whimper and whinge when their new "bad boy" abuses them. Of note is that all the while they've been ignoring the legions of decent, caring, honest men that are all around them.

I think this is the mountain we must climb, men in skirts need to become desirable. Make MIS desirable and everything will change.
Thus is not a PC view but actions speak louder than words.

How, then, can the "bad boy" problem be solved? Women have work to do in this regard as well.

[Barleymower]

It's only my opinion but it's my observation that girls can find a partner easier than men. Men are not as picky as women and are prepared to date girls who are not desirable, in looks or personality. Women on the other had will not (mostly) date undesirables. In my opinion men in skirts are largely on the undesirables list at this time. Women do not want to be judged by other women and face embarrassment.

There is plenty of evidence, both anecdotal and public record, that would state that women may, indeed, prefer "undesirables" as partners. Witness the obsession with "bad boys" -- and then women whimper and whinge when their new "bad boy" abuses them. Of note is that all the while they've been ignoring the legions of decent, caring, honest men that are all around them.

I think this is the mountain we must climb, men in skirts need to become desirable. Make MIS desirable and everything will change.
Thus is not a PC view but actions speak louder than words.

How, then, can the "bad boy" problem be solved? Women have work to do in this regard as well.

Quite right Carl ladies are drawn to bad boys. "He'd never hurt me" they say, until he does. I disagree that MIS are seen as 'bad boys' - if only! .
It's a mad, mad mixed up world.
Honestly.. I think the best chance is through the young (who are the most sexually active) to dare to go against convention. The guys who make the girls go weak.
As for us? We are bunch of old blokes who don't care what the world think of us. Keep looking, she's out there somewhere, looking for you.

[rivegauche]

I am not convinced it is the young who need persuasion. In the first place the young are very open to gender fluidity in all its forms. In the second place young women often obsess over very young men like those in boy bands who do not look at all masculine - I have heard the theory that this is because their lack of beard shadow and overt masculinity makes them less scary - they are not quite adults. I am not endorsing this, just quoting it.

I envy those who can just find new prospective partners at the drop of a hat. I am one of the picky men. There are women who like me but they are rarely the women I like. The most successful female friendship I have found in the last decade is destined to go no further though both of us love what we have. My clothing choices are irrelevant in this - when we met I wasn't just wearing a dress - I was dressed as and presenting as a woman. Like I said, this is not the obstacle to it going any further - but the obstacle is mutual and can't change (both of us are unattached). I am just so happy to have such a lovely non-judgemental woman friend and content to leave it at that.

I like to think we are on the brink of a breakthrough. These things can happen suddenly - just chart the transfer of pink from men to women or the wearing of tights by young men. My own generation of men had long hair and high or even platform heels. When the Brad Pitts of this world make an occasional foray into skirts all is possible - he makes it easier for the next celeb and so on. The extreme heat being experienced in some countries at the moment might help this along, who knows?

[crfriend]

I disagree that MIS are seen as 'bad boys' - if only! .

I wasn't implying that; we're not viewed in that light at all unless we choose to be.

I sacred the wits out of my Savannah friend when her boyfriend threatened me with physical harm. I didn't say anything "in the heat of the moment", but she could feel the temperature in the room drop by about 5 degrees when I simply went quiet. She tried to defuse the situation the next morning on the drive into Savannah by mentioning that I "... don't need to be afraid of him. He won't lift a finger." to which my rejoinder was, "I'm not afraid of him; I'm afraid of me -- because if he does beset upon me, I will defend myself and I am more than capable of killing him. I'm also 1,000 miles off my support base." Sops got pulled, favours called in, and I was in a hotel that night.

As for us? We are bunch of old blokes who don't care what the world think of us. Keep looking, she's out there somewhere, looking for you.

I'm working the problem, slowly and somewhat methodically. I've got one I'm curious about now -- and I'm already known as a "sweet sensitive guy" which is pretty accurate. She had a rough day last Friday, and when she showed up for drinks it was plainly clear so I wasn't about to get pushy, but did buy her a round, and on my way out mentioned to her that she was obviously having a rough go of it and pointed out that if I'd come over earlier and asked, "Something vexes thee?" she'd likely think me crazy (which I delivered with a smile) and might tell me to "Get out and don't talk to me again!". That gave her a laugh -- which she needed -- and we parted after a quick hug.

I have plenty of women friends and acquaintances, but I'm looking for "that someone special". I hope there is someone...

[STEVIE]

I have plenty of women friends and acquaintances, but I'm looking for "that someone special". I hope there is someone...

"Some day your princess will come" Carl.
Couldn't resist, but tomorrow, I have a "platonic" coffee date?
If there is any hope for me, then you have to be up there!
Steve.

[Grok]

I like to think we are on the brink of a breakthrough. These things can happen suddenly - just chart the transfer of pink from men to women or the wearing of tights by young men. My own generation of men had long hair and high or even platform heels. When the Brad Pitts of this world make an occasional foray into skirts all is possible - he makes it easier for the next celeb and so on. The extreme heat being experienced in some countries at the moment might help this along, who knows?

I suspect that a break through would involve one-or at most a few-designs. As I recall, there was a thread about the next skirt to gain traction.

What would stick would be a design that young women would view as acceptable if worn by young men.