news.com.au: Wet Lettuce men are hotter then alpha males

[Coder]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fashi ... b0e9a39567

Article made me roll my eyes a bit - weird term, and I dislike labels, so even labeling "healthy" male behaviors bugs me somewhat. But they did mention men wearing skirts, and it's been quite quiet on the "MIS in the news front" so I'll take whatever I can find, no matter how tenuously connected a story it is.

[ScotL]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/fashi ... b0e9a39567

Article made me roll my eyes a bit - weird term, and I dislike labels, so even labeling "healthy" male behaviors bugs me somewhat. But they did mention men wearing skirts, and it's been quite quiet on the "MIS in the news front" so I'll take whatever I can find, no matter how tenuously connected a story it is.

From the article “This guy seemed to believe that women wanted alpha males and not equal contributors,”

My sister married a “alpha male” who hangs on to his military days swagger despite doing little now except flying a desk and playing video games. My sister told my other sister “he’s an alpha male” to which my other sister said “he’s and arsehole.”

“Alpha males” are stuck in a fantasy world where the old days of men being the assumed head and were respected because of their gender are rapidly dissolving. I’m in higher education and the number of women is greater than the number of men. In a decade, “alpha males” will be Neanderthals.

There will always be people who hold on to the alpha male fantasy and write books extolling the virtue of “real men” but I suspect as women take on more and more leadership positions, alpha male behavior will be less and less tolerated.

Note: this is just my opinion.

[Stu]

I think the article is the product of an anti-masculine feminist who has a penchant for girly-men and is indulging in some wishful thinking. Certainly, women these days are less impressed with a man who exhibits infantile laddish traits, or ones who treat them like inferiors, but I have seen no sign that they are turned off by traditional masculinity. If men want to wear skirts and to still be respected by women, they are going to have to make sure they do so in a way that maintains a masculine look. To some extent, that will mean altering our perceptions of what does and doesn't look masculine.

[jamie001]

I like the article! I am a gender nonconforming wet lettuce man!

My girly agenda (or wet lettuce agenda) for this Saturday is:

1. Hair cut and color with feminine pixie cut.

2. Manicure pedicure with OPI Big Apple red on toe and Essie Playdate on fingers.

3. Go skirt shopping at the outlet mall.

4. Go to Yoga class.

What are all you wet lettuce guys up to?

At least they are coming up with new boxes for us to fit in!

Jamie
Fashion Freedom for men
You will become stronger in the ways of the pink fog

[BouffantBelle]

I think the article is the product of an anti-masculine feminist who has a penchant for girly-men and is indulging in some wishful thinking. Certainly, women these days are less impressed with a man who exhibits infantile laddish traits, or ones who treat them like inferiors, but I have seen no sign that they are turned off by traditional masculinity. If men want to wear skirts and to still be respected by women, they are going to have to make sure they do so in a way that maintains a masculine look. To some extent, that will mean altering our perceptions of what does and doesn't look masculine.

You're right. I suspect it's the novelty that has this woman intrigued, and she'd soon get sick of this kind of man long-term.
I also suspect her use of "we" is fallacious. If she truly finds these kinds of guys attractive, then she's in the minority. Human hardwired instincts aren't going away any time soon.

[Coder]

To some extent, that will mean altering our perceptions of what does and doesn't look masculine.

I think this is key - I don't really care whether what I wear is masculine of feminine - I just care that I'm perceived as "normal" and if for the vast majority, rewriting the definition just a smidge to let men have more fashion freedom is fine by me.

As for other traits - my take is just be a good person. Help with home chores, take care of your kids, etc... it's not that hard to be a good person and still be traditionally masculine. What one wears doesn't necessarily reflect on their inner personality.

[jamie001]

We need to get over this concept of the skirt having to look masculine. I want my skirts to look feminine! I am sick of all the masculine clothing in boring fabrics and boring colors that have been force fed to men for the majority of their lives.

[ScotL]

I think this is key - I don't really care whether what I wear is masculine of feminine - I just care that I'm perceived as "normal" and if for the vast majority, rewriting the definition just a smidge to let men have more fashion freedom is fine by me.

Yeah, it would be nice to be able to wear a skirt and have the same lack of concern for wearing it as I do when I wear pants/shorts.

[jamie001]

I think this is key - I don't really care whether what I wear is masculine of feminine - I just care that I'm perceived as "normal" and if for the vast majority, rewriting the definition just a smidge to let men have more fashion freedom is fine by me.

Yeah, it would be nice to be able to wear a skirt and have the same lack of concern for wearing it as I do when I wear pants/shorts.

ScottL you can wear a skirt with the same lack of concern depending on where you are located in the USA. If you are in the Deep South, you may want to rethink wearing the skirt because you will most likely get a beat-down from Bubba and his tobacco chewing, knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, redneck buddies. That is the problem

[BouffantBelle]

ScottL you can wear a skirt with the same lack of concern depending on where you are located in the USA. If you are in the Deep South, you may want to rethink wearing the skirt because you will most likely get a beat-down from Bubba and his tobacco chewing, knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, redneck buddies. That is the problem

Not just Deep South USA. Where I am it's jeering, room temperature IQ soccer hooligan types. And that's my problem, I just can't turn the other cheek. I would be so incensed by dumbasses interjecting on matters that don't concern them, that I would have to confront. Skirting really isn't worth all the repercussions I know would be on the cards for me.

[ScotL]

ScottL you can wear a skirt with the same lack of concern depending on where you are located in the USA. If you are in the Deep South, you may want to rethink wearing the skirt because you will most likely get a beat-down from Bubba and his tobacco chewing, knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, redneck buddies. That is the problem

Wish that were true. But it ain’t. I wore a skirt in Barcelona when I was darn sure no one would ever know me then or in the future ir remember and I was concerned.

I think it’s myopic though to think only the Deep South of the US has “tobacco chewing, knuckle dragging, mouth breathing” people who are intolerant. They’re everywhere.

The concern over wearing a skirt stems from the fact I grew up with skirts being for women/girls. And most people if asked to choose who wears skirts would answer females.

I’m sure my concern will further decrease because it already has. I wrote of my experience flying for the first time and my face was beet red. Under a mask but I remember the abject terror I felt. That’s better now with repeated experiences but it’s still there.

[jamie001]

ScottL you can wear a skirt with the same lack of concern depending on where you are located in the USA. If you are in the Deep South, you may want to rethink wearing the skirt because you will most likely get a beat-down from Bubba and his tobacco chewing, knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, redneck buddies. That is the problem

Wish that were true. But it ain’t. I wore a skirt in Barcelona when I was darn sure no one would ever know me then or in the future ir remember and I was concerned.

I think it’s myopic though to think only the Deep South of the US has “tobacco chewing, knuckle dragging, mouth breathing” people who are intolerant. They’re everywhere.

The concern over wearing a skirt stems from the fact I grew up with skirts being for women/girls. And most people if asked to choose who wears skirts would answer females.

I’m sure my concern will further decrease because it already has. I wrote of my experience flying for the first time and my face was beet red. Under a mask but I remember the abject terror I felt. That’s better now with repeated experiences but it’s still there.

ScottL,

The problem with having a beet red face and exhibiting a state of terror is that people will react badly to you regardless of what you are wearing. You will be a magnet for bad feelings and people wondering what you are up to. The key is to own what you are wearing! Do not act embarrassed or fearful and just go about you life. That is the fear that skirt wearers and freestyle fashion wearing guys (or Wet Lettuce Men ) need to get over! A good example of a person that lives the lifestyle is JeffB1959. Jeff just owns it and doesn't GAF about masculine or feminine as should everyone here on the cafe.

[BouffantBelle]

The problem with having a beet red face and exhibiting a state of terror is that people will react badly to you regardless of what you are wearing. You will be a magnet for bad feelings and people wondering what you are up to. The key is to own what you are wearing! Do not act embarrassed or fearful and just go about you life. That is the fear that skirt wearers and freestyle fashion wearing guys (or Wet Lettuce Men ) need to get over! A good example of a person that lives the lifestyle is JeffB1959. Jeff just owns it and doesn't GAF about masculine or feminine as should everyone here on the cafe.

But it isn't altogether that easy, is it? It's one of those things that's easier said than done, if ever there was one. We have to bear in mind that what's manageable for some, may well seem insurmountable for others.
It's like saying "just go about your day naked as a jaybird, and own it!" How many realistically are going to have the balls to own that? Very few, because they flat out know the unfavourable reaction doing so is very likely, if not guaranteed to cause.

[ScotL]

The problem with having a beet red face and exhibiting a state of terror is that people will react badly to you regardless of what you are wearing. You will be a magnet for bad feelings and people wondering what you are up to. The key is to own what you are wearing! Do not act embarrassed or fearful and just go about you life. That is the fear that skirt wearers and freestyle fashion wearing guys (or Wet Lettuce Men ) need to get over! A good example of a person that lives the lifestyle is JeffB1959. Jeff just owns it and doesn't GAF about masculine or feminine as should everyone here on the cafe.

Easy to say, harder to actually do. I think we need to be realistic of the fact that we are all different people with different circumstances with different constitutions and different home and work lives.

I believe this cafe should be encouraging people to step out but respecting their fears and helping them overcome them at their pace.

[dressedbrewer]

The problem with having a beet red face and exhibiting a state of terror is that people will react badly to you regardless of what you are wearing. You will be a magnet for bad feelings and people wondering what you are up to. The key is to own what you are wearing! Do not act embarrassed or fearful and just go about you life. That is the fear that skirt wearers and freestyle fashion wearing guys (or Wet Lettuce Men ) need to get over! A good example of a person that lives the lifestyle is JeffB1959. Jeff just owns it and doesn't GAF about masculine or feminine as should everyone here on the cafe.

Easy to say, harder to actually do. I think we need to be realistic of the fact that we are all different people with different circumstances with different constitutions and different home and work lives.

I believe this cafe should be encouraging people to step out but respecting their fears and helping them overcome them at their pace.

This!
Even knowing that there are other males who want to wear skirts that aren't trans and just enjoy wearing whatever, even in their own residences, is a huge weight off the shoulders (not that there is anything wrong with being trans) and takes away the feeling of what is wrong with me.