Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
jamodu
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by jamodu »

STEVIE wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 6:28 pm …make it easy on yourself, just wear what you damn well please.
Don’t be concerned. Anything a Woman would wear, I do too - Skirts, Dresses, Leggings, Shoes, Tops, Blouses, Nightwear, Tights, Stockings, and associated underwear.

My original post was in pointing out the irony of Women buying ‘Boyfriend’ clothing, while ‘Girlfriend’ clothing is not available to Men - such as ‘Girlfriend Skirts’ etc. it’s meant to a light-hearted observation on the double-standards that we have all experienced. That’s all.
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by Coder »

Barleymower wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:56 am Life seems harder in the USA. I have not been there but .. and tell me if I'm wrong. Flip flops are womens wear and shorts are womens wear. They are not womens wear here. Men can wear short shorts if they want, most would say they are old fashioned. As for flip flops? No problem.
Guys wear shorts - but generally they are knee length, cargo shorts. Short shorts like as seen in the 70's/80's - not very common. Men also wear flip flops, but it really depends on the area - like at the beach, coastal areas sure. In my rugged midwestern town? Not seen frequently. Frankly... I don't go out much since COVID so am not totally aware of customs.
rode_kater
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by rode_kater »

It was interesting to read the thoughts about why when women wear men's clothes no-one bats an eye-lid. My theory on this is simple: women have "shape", men do not. Women's clothing can be plain, like mens, or it try to accentuate the shape in various ways. Men's clothing is basically trying to make a rectangle look good.

So when a woman wears men's clothing, it does nothing to conceal any underlying shape and may even accidentally accentuate it. Yet if a man wears women's clothing at best it does nothing (how do you make a rectangle look good?) but at worst it tries to accentuate features that aren't there.

The situations are not symmetrical.

What does this mean? Not that much really, what is acceptable is simply what people are used to. So with enough exposure people will get used to anything. Just looking at the history of men's clothing shows what is possible.
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by ScotL »

jamodu wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:14 pm On the radio today, some young Girl, on discovering a pair of Shorts that she wanted to buy, was informed that the style was for Boys only. Her response was to state that it was 'sexist' for the aforementioned Shorts to be only available for the opposite gender.
This idea that it’s sexist for a woman not to be “allowed” to wear a style that’s for boys only needs to be encouraged. Would love to see such millennial outrage over it that no one could then argue that men shouldn’t wear skirts.
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by Midas »

This is nonsense. It depends on the individual. Well over 50% of people of both sexes just look like blobs and would best be suited by a unisex bin liner.
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by crfriend »

Midas wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:41 pmWell over 50% of people of both sexes just look like blobs and would best be suited by a unisex bin liner.
That's certainly applicable in the northern half of the western hemisphere if the parade of folks was representative!
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by STEVIE »

jamodu wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 10:08 am it’s meant to a light-hearted observation on the double-standards that we have all experienced. That’s all.
Hi Jamodu
I didn't intend to convey anything other than light hearted intent.
However, reading through some of the comments on it, some folks don't see it that way.
Women have learnt to get enjoyment from their clothes and have fun in the process too.
Men just need to do likewise and get out of the drab rut which they have stuck themselves in.
Anyone who can't just clear the way for those who can and will.
Steve.
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by TheSkirtedMan »

jamodu wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:14 pm Out shopping this week, I stumbled on 'Boyfriend Pyjamas'. These were obviously in a Men's style, fashioned for Women's proportions. On past occasions, I have similarly seen 'Boyfriend Cardigans', 'Boyfriend Shirts' and 'Boyfriend Shorts' (underwear). On the radio today, some young Girl, on discovering a pair of Shorts that she wanted to buy, was informed that the style was for Boys only. Her response was to state that it was 'sexist' for the aforementioned Shorts to be only available for the opposite gender.

This is another example of double-standards in society and in the fashion industry. For the sake of equality, how about 'Girlfriend Skirts', Girlfriend Dresses' and 'Girlfriend Tights', for example, being similarly available for Men to buy?
The usual society double standards between men and women with regards clothing choice. Created because women made a stand against their clothing gender stereotype and men haven't. Latter not helped by the vast majority of men not wanting to invade the female wardrobe due to society perception of masculinity and feminine and masculinity being the master appearance. Therefore men like us on this forum need to stand tall and stake their claim accepting being part of a minority will not be easy. The vast majority of women, well nearly all women, took a stand to break their clothing stereotype so it was easier to achieve.

Be, you, be yourself I say and I do stake my claim for clothing choice as a man very actively in my public life.
Be yourself because an original is worth more than a copy.
Barleymower
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by Barleymower »

TheSkirtedMan wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 2:19 pm
jamodu wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:14 pm Out shopping this week, I stumbled on 'Boyfriend Pyjamas'. These were obviously in a Men's style, fashioned for Women's proportions. On past occasions, I have similarly seen 'Boyfriend Cardigans', 'Boyfriend Shirts' and 'Boyfriend Shorts' (underwear). On the radio today, some young Girl, on discovering a pair of Shorts that she wanted to buy, was informed that the style was for Boys only. Her response was to state that it was 'sexist' for the aforementioned Shorts to be only available for the opposite gender.

This is another example of double-standards in society and in the fashion industry. For the sake of equality, how about 'Girlfriend Skirts', Girlfriend Dresses' and 'Girlfriend Tights', for example, being similarly available for Men to buy?
The usual society double standards between men and women with regards clothing choice. Created because women made a stand against their clothing gender stereotype and men haven't. Latter not helped by the vast majority of men not wanting to invade the female wardrobe due to society perception of masculinity and feminine and masculinity being the master appearance. Therefore men like us on this forum need to stand tall and stake their claim accepting being part of a minority will not be easy. The vast majority of women, well nearly all women, took a stand to break their clothing stereotype so it was easier to achieve.

Be, you, be yourself I say and I do stake my claim for clothing choice as a man very actively in my public life.
Women are not exactly cheering men on to liberate their wardrobes. They:
1. Giggle and smirk at men in skirts
2. Ignore them with distain
3. Take them off the potential partner list
4. Threaten divorce to partners who venture into the forbidden skirted zone.
5. Tell them they are ridiculous and ask if there's 'anything else"

Men were not in favour of women breaking dress codes why would women be helpful now?
STEVIE
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by STEVIE »

Barleymower wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 7:18 pm Men were not in favour of women breaking dress codes why would women be helpful now?
As I have already said elsewhere, women fought for their fashion freedom and won.
Bear in mind that society as a whole objected and not just the males of the species.
Men then sat back and accepted that as the status quo, society adapted.
Women can now wear whatever they damn well choose and there is nothing wrong with that.
Well to every cafe member out there who feels like bleating about how unfair it is on us poor lost boys.
On every occasion that you compromise your choice without a damn good reason is also reason to put up or shut up.
Outside of family though, my own staunchest support and backing has been predominantly from women, all flavours too.
The only thing that I doubt that I will ever change is BM's point 3, budding romances higher than lottery odds.
Steve
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by Barleymower »

STEVIE wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 8:54 pm
Barleymower wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 7:18 pm Men were not in favour of women breaking dress codes why would women be helpful now?
As I have already said elsewhere, women fought for their fashion freedom and won.
Bear in mind that society as a whole objected and not just the males of the species.
Men then sat back and accepted that as the status quo, society adapted.
Women can now wear whatever they damn well choose and there is nothing wrong with that.
Well to every cafe member out there who feels like bleating about how unfair it is on us poor lost boys.
On every occasion that you compromise your choice without a damn good reason is also reason to put up or shut up.
Outside of family though, my own staunchest support and backing has been predominantly from women, all flavours too.
The only thing that I doubt that I will ever change is BM's point 3, budding romances higher than lottery odds.
Steve
Careful what you wish for Stevie you might end up with a dominatrix making you do the housework in a french maid outfit 🫡
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Barleymower
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by Barleymower »

STEVIE wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 8:54 pm
Barleymower wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 7:18 pm Men were not in favour of women breaking dress codes why would women be helpful now?
As I have already said elsewhere, women fought for their fashion freedom and won.
Bear in mind that society as a whole objected and not just the males of the species.
Men then sat back and accepted that as the status quo, society adapted.
Women can now wear whatever they damn well choose and there is nothing wrong with that.
Well to every cafe member out there who feels like bleating about how unfair it is on us poor lost boys.
On every occasion that you compromise your choice without a damn good reason is also reason to put up or shut up.
Outside of family though, my own staunchest support and backing has been predominantly from women, all flavours too.
The only thing that I doubt that I will ever change is BM's point 3, budding romances higher than lottery odds.
Steve
You say "On every occasion that you compromise your choice without a damn good reason is also reason to put up or shut up".
Are men are fighting a different battle? For women it was unbecoming. For men it is deviance. How do you overcome that?
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by Faldaguy »

by Barleymower » Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:18 pm

Be, you, be yourself I say and I do stake my claim for clothing choice as a man very actively in my public life.
Women are not exactly cheering men on to liberate their wardrobes. They:
1. Giggle and smirk at men in skirts
2. Ignore them with distain
3. Take them off the potential partner list
4. Threaten divorce to partners who venture into the forbidden skirted zone.
5. Tell them they are ridiculous and ask if there's 'anything else"

Men were not in favour of women breaking dress codes why would women be helpful now?
BM; my admiration for your fortitude in following your inner self in spite of some heavy, and quite personal, opposition; however, let's also be cautious to qualify statements such as 1-5 above as the behaviors of "some" women (& some men too) but not "all". I recognize you did not state all in so many words, but "Women....They:..." implies a more universal picture than reality. Your list tends to define 'partners, significant others, close family...' that due to their closeness to you may feel more threatened for you, or themselves -- the same worries most us felt before we got out there and just became more of ourselves. It is especially hard and sad when those we love and are close cannot readily support us...but it is not difficult to see they do carry an extra burden to overcome before they can respond like, what I suspect is the actual majority of women, in a much more dispassionate fashion.

I can without a statistically valid sampling accept your contentions about 'women' above for the subset of family, however, my experience and interactions in the larger world tell me those traits are not dominant in the general population of the female domain. In fact, I'd say the general population of men harbor more fears and thus negative responses than from women. That too is sad, but let's not tar and feather all women with the same brush.
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by STEVIE »

Barleymower wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 4:30 am For women it was unbecoming. For men it is deviance. How do you overcome that?
Out, about, loud and proud BM.
Deviance lurks in the shadows, it keeps it's nature secret.
Actually the real deviants among us look perfectly "normal".
The perfect camouflage is hiding in plain sight, the true predator's greatest ability.
Barleymower wrote: Wed Jun 14, 2023 9:36 pm Careful what you wish for Stevie you might end up with a dominatrix making you do the housework in a french maid outfit
If madame were to pay for two weeks on the Riviera to road test it first, who knows?
Oh and she would also have to me to Gallery Lafayette in Paris to buy the outfit since I don't have one in my wardrobe.
A whole new experience could beckon..........................
Allo Allo!
Steve.
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Re: Never-mind 'Boyfriend'. How about 'Girlfriend'?

Post by Barleymower »

Faldaguy wrote: Thu Jun 15, 2023 6:17 am
by Barleymower » Wed Jun 14, 2023 1:18 pm

Be, you, be yourself I say and I do stake my claim for clothing choice as a man very actively in my public life.
Women are not exactly cheering men on to liberate their wardrobes. They:
1. Giggle and smirk at men in skirts
2. Ignore them with distain
3. Take them off the potential partner list
4. Threaten divorce to partners who venture into the forbidden skirted zone.
5. Tell them they are ridiculous and ask if there's 'anything else"

Men were not in favour of women breaking dress codes why would women be helpful now?
BM; my admiration for your fortitude in following your inner self in spite of some heavy, and quite personal, opposition; however, let's also be cautious to qualify statements such as 1-5 above as the behaviors of "some" women (& some men too) but not "all". I recognize you did not state all in so many words, but "Women....They:..." implies a more universal picture than reality. Your list tends to define 'partners, significant others, close family...' that due to their closeness to you may feel more threatened for you, or themselves -- the same worries most us felt before we got out there and just became more of ourselves. It is especially hard and sad when those we love and are close cannot readily support us...but it is not difficult to see they do carry an extra burden to overcome before they can respond like, what I suspect is the actual majority of women, in a much more dispassionate fashion.

I can without a statistically valid sampling accept your contentions about 'women' above for the subset of family, however, my experience and interactions in the larger world tell me those traits are not dominant in the general population of the female domain. In fact, I'd say the general population of men harbor more fears and thus negative responses than from women. That too is sad, but let's not tar and feather all women with the same brush.
Hi Faldaguy, perhaps a misunderstanding here. I have a very supportive wife who recently bought me a very nice skirt from hobbs. I wear a mixture of skirts and trousers. I wear skirts out and about on my own or with the family or just me and my wife. It's all good.

I recently read an article titled: wtf-is-so-funny-about-a-man-in-a-dress-femmephobia-is-no-joke
The article is supportive about men in skirts and dresses but concludes that the attack on men is essentially an attack on women. The article does not mention that women also disapprove of MIS when clearly they do. It is not just men who disapprove of other men donning a skirt or dress. There is an underlying ownership of skirts and dresses that does not surface very often.

My 1-5 list is some of my own experiences but also the writing of men in this community. Men who have had and continue to have problems with their choice of clothes.

There are some very supportive women, I'm married to one and supportive men. There is also a vast army of unsupportive men and women. To conclude: women are most supportive until its their man. Then the support often evaporates and the true feelings burst out.
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