A negative experience

[Pythos]

When reading this post, be sure to understand you are in the Freestyle fashions section of this forum.

Remember Freestyle fashion.

That being said

Last weekend I went to visit my friend up in the state capitol. For the trip I wore my skinz black catsuit, motorcycle boots, and light jacket. This is a nice fitting suit, that has a shiny appearance to it, My female roomate likes how this one looks on herself and me.

Anyway when I arrived my friend and his fiance and myself just hung around for a bit and chatted about stuff, including politics. I got some inquiries concerning the comfort of what I had on, but no criticisms.

We then decided to go for a hike to the older part of town, for this I changed out of my suit, and put on a t-shirt, black leggings, and sneakers, my standard athletic look.

During our time there we went all through the town. It was odd this time though. I have been at similar places similarly attired with hardly a glance from others, but this day was different. I got at least three hard glares from older folk, and some hispanic (maco) males. But what really creeped me out was when me and my friend's fiance were waiting outside an ice cream shop, while he was inside getting something, this creepy, scruffy looking dude walked by giggling to himself, it seemed he caught a glimpse of us two, and then walked past giggling a little louder. He walked a few store fronts further, then stopped...looking in our direction. I was seeing this through the corner of my eyes that were covered by sunglasses. I did my best to not make eye contact. For the entire ten minutes we waited out there, that weirdo just stood there, the one full glance I got of him, he was looking at us with a very scary look on his mug. I must be honest, my friend's fiance is not what can be called overly attractive to the average guy (she however has a personality to circumvent that for thinking people), so I have this feeling this jerk was focused on me, possibly because of the leggings. Finally my friend came out, and we were able to continue on. As we started off, the gawker started to follow. I would mock looking across the street, when actually looking through the corner of my eye. I was starting to get a little freaked (So, is this what it feels like for a woman when some guy follows her because of how she is dressed? Perhaps more guys who do this should experience it for themselves.). But after crossing the street, we finally lost the loser.

I post this cause there are some here that say a man in leggings is no big deal. If anything it is a fashion for adolescents and looks silly on others. But also they are "strictly" an athletic style. Well this incident I think shows the point well that it is not accepted by some, especially in these days of bush. I do not truly know what this guy was all about, and I am certainly not going to curb my wearing of what I like, because of this day's experiences.

It was however quite frightening to say the least.

The funny thing is, I have a feeling if I had stayed in my original outfit, this may not have happened due to how "complete" the outfit is, unlike the kinda sloppy appearance of my other outfit. Cannot be sure though.

Oh and also, I saw only a few women wearing skirts, and they fit into the "trashy" category, the rest were all in blue jeans of various tightness, and lengths, other people were in sweats, wife beaters, torn blue jeans, shorts, and even some in pajamas. Compared to some here my rig was nice looking, and even myself thought it was not as clean and sleek as I usually like to be.

[sapphire]

Hi Pythos,
Sorry you had that creepy experience. I've had them too, even when dressed very nicely. They are not only creepy but scary. Fortunately you were in a group and there was only one creep.

Sapphire

[Departed Member]

I post this cause there are some here that say a man in leggings is no big deal. If anything it is a fashion for adolescents and looks silly on others. But also they are "strictly" an athletic style. Well this incident I think shows the point well that it is not accepted by some, especially in these days of bush.

The bloke didn't speak to you? Or approach you directly? Did anyone else in the area look as if they'd just come from an athletic (or similar) event? So you were, to those around you, dressed 'out of context' for that area? Doing anything 'out of context' is liable to attract attention, unprovoked or nay. And, to be honest, many neighbourhoods (esp. if US films are to be believed - just seen "The Dark Knight! ) do seem to have their share of resident 'nutter's!

Goodness, I only used to live a mere quarter mile from our Sports Centre, so always changed at home and walked down and back. 95% arrived by car, and 99.5% changed there! And, yes, it'd invite 'stares'! But there was no way I'd want to enter the pub (which was half way between!) dressed thus, and invite ridicule, however good natured, on myself or my, by now changed, colleagues! I mean no disrespect, but I have difficulty associating 'sports style' with 'freestyle', in the context of this forum. Especially, as you, yourself, say:

"When reading this post, be sure to understand you are in the Freestyle fashions section of this forum."

[crfriend]

The bloke didn't speak to you? Or approach you directly? Did anyone else in the area look as if they'd just come from an athletic (or similar) event?

I'd like to point up here that we may be speaking two different languages here.

When Pythos pointed up that he was wearing a garment that might be perceived as being "athletic" he was saying precisely nothing about it relating to "professional" "athletics" (both, note, being in separate quotation marks). The chap was dressed in clothing that represents real athletic endeavours, not the sort of shenanigans that go on "on the field of battle" (i.e. "professional" "athletics"); he's talking about the sort of garb that one might find at a local gymnasium.

The sort of stalking, leering, behaviour commented on was, in no uncertain terms, perverse. Nothing more, nothing less. In my opinion, such behaviour has no place whatsoever in modern society.

So you were, to those around you, dressed 'out of context' for that area? Doing anything 'out of context' is liable to attract attention, unprovoked or nay.

Based on the original poster's comments, he was not. This was an average street scene in an average millieu. Does the mere wearing of a particular garment warrant stalking and leering? I posit not. Most wholeheartedly NOT.

And, to be honest, many neighbourhoods (esp. if US films are to be believed - just seen "The Dark Knight! ) do seem to have their share of resident 'nutter's!

I am going to overstep my bounds here, and I do so with full understanding that it may cost me my post as moderator, but the UK most certainly does NOT have the right to call the US a nation of anarchists and "gun nuts". I have two words: "Operation Kratos"; you guys have yet to dissolve that obscenity where, without regard to legal process (read, with a JUDGE AND JURY's order), the police, by fiat, are allowed to take a human life in a calculated "preemptive" manner. That alone makes me really question my notion of being a bit of an anglophile.

"When reading this post, be sure to understand you are in the Freestyle fashions section of this forum."

And that's got precisely DICK to do with any of this.

[gorcee]

(esp. if US films are to be believed - just seen "The Dark Knight! ) do seem to have their share of resident 'nutter's!

Really??

You're basing a perception of the United States off of a movie based on a comic book series designed around a dystopian reconstruction of the present day?

Even if you're basing your perception of the United States off of other, less fantastic movies, it's still questionable. Movies are made to exaggerate reality. They tell a story by inflating quotidian events into a hypothetical realization. Movies are just "what ifs". Even the dramas and the chick flics.

Real people don't stand on a girl's front yard holding a boom box above their head to serenade them (cf. Say Anything).

Real people don't narrowly dodge cars zooming down the street during car chases in urban environments (cf. The French Connection).

Movies exaggerate what does happen because it tells a better story. That's why we enjoy them, because they offer an escape from reality.

Now, American neighborhoods don't have any more or less 'nutters' than any European or Asian or African neighborhood. What we have is a cultural difference in perception. Different things raise eyebrows in the States than they do in Europe. Sometimes people encounter some perceptive input that causes them to deviate from their typical behavioral pattern. Those things are different in different parts of the US, let alone Europe. If I walked the streets of some English town with a black shirt that said in big white letters, "FÜCK YOU", I'd be willing to wager that I would get something of a reaction from the townsfolk.

Now, I'm sure that, upon reading that phrase, some people are going to be taken aback. Some might be disgusted. Some might be offended. But it's just seven letters, arranged in a specific order. Right. "Civilized people don't use those words."

Uh huh. And it's just a few yards of fabric, with two fewer stitches down the middle. "Men don't wear skirts."

That sort of thing, in some parts of the United States, hardly gives pause. It has nothing to do with "nutters", and it has nothing to do with what flag you fly over your head. It has to do with what your comfort level is. There is equivalence in everything. We just pick and choose those things with which we want to take issue.

[Departed Member]

Carl rightly points out, "He's talking about the sort of garb that one might find at a local gymnasium.", and, "This was an average street scene in an average millieu." And that is exactly my point! The behaviour pattern observed by Pythos, may well have had no direct relationship to a specific item of clothing. Hence my reasoned attempts to reassure said gentleman, that things may well not have been clothing-related!

However, Carl does go on to say, "In my opinion, such behaviour has no place whatsoever in modern society." And, again, I'd agree. I don't know about the USA, but here in the UK, our politicians 'invented' "Care in the Community", which basically threw out of sheltered housing, a great many people for whom the world is a very 'strange' place. Perhaps there are folk here, who have some knowledge of the behavioural problems of such mentally unstable, or even (sadly) retarded, folk. Pythos's excellent, and very precise, description of the chap seems far more akin to that provisional analysis, than 'pervert', to be frank.

Kindly explain to me, please, why anyone should consider I'm' having a go' at the USA? I'm NOT! I'm just attempting to 'illustrate' the point by referencing the kind of behaviour observed by Pythos is not untypical of the behavior depicted by some of the characters in a very recent film which has a global format. My observation shouldn't, and doesn't, infer anything 'retrograde' about any form of behaviour specific to the USA. I've read, and re-read what I put, and it stands grammatically correct. However, the US film industry does not help the global perception of said country, in fact it continually seeks to undermine it.

I do NOT appreciate folk taking observations out of context, and deliberately misquoting me, Mr Gorcee. If you wish to walk around an (any?) English town wearing your teeshirt, almost certainly at some stage, you'll hear a query, "Why the umlaut?" And come on, Carl, where have you arrived at, "a nation of anarchists and "gun nuts", from? In the UK, the term 'nutter' is far more generic. Most, if truth be known, are basically harmless, even if, as appears in this case, a little un-nerving. It seems, between you, you have managed to completely undermine my efforts to re-assure Pythos.

[Peter v]

I would expect that there are more of us ( to explain, "US" means all members of the skirt wearing community, that is skirt cafe, without any differentiation in how skirts are worn. ) who have at one time or the other had moments when "we"( men wearing skirts) have had some feel of a threatening situation, threatening in the sense of not being able to fathom where the unwanted "interest" from others, mostly men I would think, is going. Only after you get away scot free then a summary is possible. Some probably shout obsenitys, there may be other things. I haven't heard of a stalking until now. Even with shouting, there may be some reason to be on your guard, as people who shout obsenitys in public apparently have no regard for the law, for the opinions of others, and may go further.

The telling of such hapenings is a very important thing, so that there can be an image formed of what sort of things actually have happened, not to install fear, but to inform. To learn from that information.

Thankfully nothing happened, which in it self shows that although sometimes we may feel threatend, that doesn't mean that something will happen, and is deffinitely no reason to diminish or even stop wearing skirts.

I would agree to some extent about the image that we europeans have of the US, in some places. But most know better than to think it it be reality. The US is such a large country, it wouldn't be normal if there were not places where one would rather not be. There is much more possible over there than in the UK or The Netherlands, etc. just because of its geographical vastness. But i am sure that in no way is there a gang on every street corner, is everyone member of a militia, etc, etc. Besides, If there were not enough normal people, all those exceptions, scum, wouldnt have anything to live off.

I have seen police footage of how many English generally younger people, misbehave, in extreme ways, very violently during the night life. I don't think everybody over there is like that. A very shaming thing for the UK, but in every country there are people to be found who you would deffinitely not want to meet. And fortunately, I suppose most of us never meet them.

People have the right to think what they want, about other people but they don.t have any right to do harm to others. Not fysically and not mentally. That stalker was just apparently not good in his head. It would be a sad thing if we were to limit our way of dressing just because we could perhaps one day somewhere meet some unsound person.

[JRMILLER]

Pythos,
Pretty scary situation, very glad you were able to loose the nut.

Given our interests, it makes me wonder if we should be learning self-defense, just in case things ever get physical.

-john

[Milfmog]

If I walked the streets of some English town with a black shirt that said in big white letters, "FÜCK YOU", I'd be willing to wager that I would get something of a reaction from the townsfolk.

[Tongue in cheek mode]
They'd probably laugh, thinking you'd bought a cheap imitation of a French Connection shirt... *
[/Tongue in cheek mode]

Have fun,


Ian.

PS: Merlin, Given the state of our educational system I suspect few folks would know it was an umlaut.

* Note for those lucky enough not to have come across French Connection: French Connection is a fashion brand that has been using the initials FCUK prominently on advertising and garments for the last few years.

[crfriend]

Carl does go on to say, "In my opinion, such behaviour has no place whatsoever in modern society." And, again, I'd agree. I don't know about the USA, but here in the UK, our politicians 'invented' "Care in the Community", which basically threw out of sheltered housing, a great many people for whom the world is a very 'strange' place.

That's nothing new on these shores; Massachusetts started doing that back in the early 1970s.

Kindly explain to me, please, why anyone should consider I'm' having a go' at the USA? I'm NOT!

With deference, swipes have been taken in the past, and despite the abject mess that our "government" is in at the moment, some of us really do love our country and don't like having it slagged off on. Lots of people get especially torqued off when outsiders think they understand how things work based on the sort of pablum that's foisted off on the world by Hollywood and the television networks. CSI: Miami, anybody? The Sopranos? That is NOT reality.

"Why the umlaut?"

It was a way to get a "dirty word around the nanny-filters -- "gaming the system", if you will. I was going to edit it, but, put bluntly, I'm getting -- very quickly -- to not give a hoot.

And come on, Carl, where have you arrived at, "a nation of anarchists and "gun nuts", from?

See above, throw in a case of very raw nerves from the past couple of weeks, add a sunburn that itches to high heaven, and you've got one very cranky individual.

In the UK, the term 'nutter' is far more generic. Most, if truth be known, are basically harmless, even if, as appears in this case, a little un-nerving. It seems, between you, you have managed to completely undermine my efforts to re-assure Pythos.

If this was a misunderstanding, you (Merlin and the community) have my apologies. However, my commentary on the way that the United States is perceived, and why it is so perceived, stands.

[Departed Member]

[Tongue in cheek mode] They'd probably laugh, thinking you'd bought a cheap imitation of a French Connection shirt... * [/Tongue in cheek mode]

PS: Merlin, Given the state of our educational system I suspect few folks would know it was an umlaut.

I suspect you'd probably be right, Ian!

It was a way to get a "dirty word around the nanny-filters -- "gaming the system", if you will.

Aah! I see! Gosh, aren't some folk desperate?

If this was a misunderstanding, you (Merlin and the community) have my apologies. However, my commentary on the way that the United States is perceived, and why it is so perceived, stands.

Not a problem! I used that particular film as an analogy, purely because it was the only one I could think of that might be seen 'worldwide', where depictions of 'street nutters' (common to USA & Europe), were quite a strong and very deliberate feature. You know, the ones who just, 'stand and stare'. I'm not an avid film watcher because I don't particularly care for the way American films depict "America", either. We had free tickets to use up, so I pretty much ignored the 'story' and just concentrated on the director's 'cut'. The final scene, with the 'street dwellers' gawping after the motor bike struck an immediate chord with Pythos's observation. If I were intending to 'have a go' at the USA, then why did I go on to cite similar personal experiences in the UK?

[gshubert]

I'm glad you're okay, Pythos. I had a negative experience last Sunday morning, walking back to campus (I'm taking some summer classes) from church services. I was wearing a white Jeanstar skirt, white t-shirt with the college logo, athletic shoes and a Kangol cap. The style is like this picture, but the color was white. It zips on the "right" side, and comes to just above the knee, and I thought it looked okay.

I was getting close to campus, and passed a car that was stopped along the side of the street. Then it pulled past me, then stopped again. I didn't think much of it at the time. An hour or so later, a knock on my door, and it was a campus security officer, "Sorry to bother you", she said, but someone had reported "a man in a skirt on campus". The officer had told the complainer, Yes, he's a student here; after that the person had no further complaint. The officer apologized to me for having to tell me about this unpleasantness, but thought I ought to know. I had been wearing kilts and skirts for four weeks without a problem; and no problems last summer or the summer before that. I was kind of shaken up for a little bit. I told a couple of other students here in my dorm about it, and they were all quite supportive of me.

I wonder what prompted the complaint. I think it was an older (60s?) couple in the car, but I wasn't paying close attention, so I can't be sure. Nothing else came of it, and I'm still wearing skirts to class and around the college.

[Peter v]

How often if ever do we ( men who wear any form of skirt, as being persons, men who dare differ from the rest) get jelled at, threatenningly or mennacingly stared at or otherwise intimidated?

I was myself again in the city near home, this time in a knee length dress, yes not a manly dress, for those who make a point of that, and I could feel that two men I was to pass would swear/insult me. They did, they were men I would think in their mid twentys begin thirtys, and they shouted "HOMO" and some other related insults. I could have shot them there and then. Of course I didn't. My greatest fear was if they would follow me or worse. There were also today a few others who, being young men in cars driving past, and some sitting at the terraces in front of cafe's, who also shouted obsenitys. That rarely happens, but it seemed that today the good weather had pulled the grubs out of the woodwork. It is always the same type of people, the same age groups.

Even though some bastards voiced their opinions, hatred, I have up until now have never been actually touched by another person. So although unpleasant, the words have not harmed me. These things can happen, but are certainly no reason not to be yourself.

It is always the same people, you can generally see it just by looking at them, ( but not always from those you expect it from).

I also had a nice talk with a husband and wife, two people from possibly from Morocco or thereabouts, and asked if they could take a picture, Of course. They were genuinely interested in why I dressed like I did, and we were unanimous that looking at the person inside, is the only way to see others, and not to judge by their clothes alone. No biased opinions. They also said that perceptions in their home country would be hard to put down, but apparently they were openminded, which gave me renewd faith in the future, against all that is going wrong, there is still enough that is right.

[Since1982]

Gorcee mentioned hats and T-shirts with the F-bomb on them. In 2006 when I went to Las Vegas to play in the World Series Of Poker, there were up to 6,000 people in the poker room of the Rio hotel and casino at any one time and at least 10 to 15% of them had the F-bomb somewhere on their hats or pants or shirts. Mostly in Yellow on Black hats or shirts and always with a period in this place>> FU.CK but on the clothes the space between U and C wasn't nearly that large. The . was a token to make it legal in Nevada, which is known as Sin City but being mostly owned today by the Mormons and "they" are very picky about certain words on/in their hotels. When the Justice Dept. arrested most of the old time Mobsters on RICO charges, the Mormons bought them out. For instance, Harrah's ( a Mormon conglomerate ) owns 158 casinos world wide. 50 casinos in Nevada alone.

[gorcee]

The . was a token to make it legal in Nevada,

It's legal without the period. Profanity is protected by the First Amendment. If you don't like it, turn your head.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/ana ... x?id=18508