Political Chatter

[Gregg1100]

https://www.youtube.com/attribution_lin ... re%3Dshare

I am voting OUT. See film

Remember- the worst thieves and crooks are not in jail, but walking the corridors of Westminster.

[crfriend]

( Oh , forgive me Carl, (I'm supposed to say "Undocumented" ... [)]

I believe you misjudge. By the letter of the law (whether it happens to be right or not, and there is a definite schism between "right" and "legal") those here in violation of the law are, by definition, "illegal". I have no problem with the term save that it seems to encompass almost everything that is not explicitly permitted -- and then even some of the things that are explicitly permitted.

Im really trying to be politically correct here!

Don't try. Just call it as you see it, but at least try not to libel individuals. That's a headache I really don't need at the moment when somebody's lawyer comes after me as current admin of the forum.

Of note is that fact that I happen to personally think that neither of the presumptive candidates are even remotely suitable for the job. My assertion is that the entire game is rigged to favour those who really pull the strings and that the popular vote means precisely dick.

[Disaffected.citizen]

Remember- the worst thieves and crooks are not in jail, but walking the corridors of Westminster.

Supported by a broken justice system; and they shall remain wandering those corridors regardless of "Stay" or "Leave".

I believe you misjudge. By the letter of the law (whether it happens to be right or not, and there is a definite schism between "right" and "legal") those here in violation of the law are, by definition, "illegal". I have no problem with the term save that it seems to encompass almost everything that is not explicitly permitted -- and then even some of the things that are explicitly permitted.

Not only is there a schism between "right" and "legal", there is also the interpretation and application of said "laws" both of which are subject to the bias or discrimination of the "enforcement" authorities. They choose what to investigate, the extent of their investigation, and what to report.

Of note is that fact that I happen to personally think that neither of the presumptive candidates are even remotely suitable for the job. My assertion is that the entire game is rigged to favour those who really pull the strings and that the popular vote means precisely dick.

I'll not be popular with some here, but I had hoped to see Elizabeth Warren throw her hat in the ring. She may have had enough credit to put HRC in 2nd place again. As for DT....

I think that the USA needs to play an active role in the world alongside all other countries, and not necessarily with troops. I felt that you guys stood back and watched under GWB, which resulted in the atrocity of 9/11 and the carnage of the "knee jerk" aftermath. We all need to recognise that the fact another country doesn't follow the same laws, systems and traditions as our own does not mean that they are necessarily wrong or evil, merely they are different..... and on that note enter DT and his overture to Kim Jong Un (the surrealism of politics).

[Jim]

I'll not be popular with some here, but I had hoped to see Elizabeth Warren throw her hat in the ring. She may have had enough credit to put HRC in 2nd place again.

Maybe we can still get Warren for VP. Maybe move up to President in 8 1/2 years.

[dillon]

https://www.youtube.com/attribution_lin ... re%3Dshare

I am voting OUT. See film

Remember- the worst thieves and crooks are not in jail, but walking the corridors of Westminster.

I represent only American self-interest in my comments, but I hope Britain remains in the EU in some negotiated form. Whatever weakens European unity, ultimately weakens NATO, and makes Russia stronger, and does nothing to solve the problems in Europe. The ramifications of Britain's departure would likely mean increased hostilities in the East; Ukraine falling back under Russian dominance and the possible renewal of conflicts in the Balkans as Putin flexes his newfound muscle.

I agree that the EU has far too many councils, commissions, courts and parliaments, and it should be renegotiated to reduce bureaucracy and unnecessary authority to maintain the trappings of national sovereignty that key members want, while not standing in the way of commerce and movement of citizenry, and while providing for common security. It's Europe's excessively estrogenic and bureaucratic response to the flood of migrants that is causing this mess; if Britain doesn't provide that leadership, the flood will continue. The one good thing that the threat of Brexit does is to enable renegotiation and revision of EU bureaucracy and policy. Actually leaving, however, IMO, is not a good thing for anyone.

I'm not knocking the humanitarian thinking of the EU members, but it's bureaucracy needs to adapt quickly before the continent is overwhelmed. Especially with regard to the flux of Africans through Libya and onto the Mediterranean. Receiving them and sheltering them on European soil, while noble and generous, is simply inviting the problem to worsen. It's a bit like the little old lady who puts up a squirrel feeder next to her bird feeder, then finds herself with an attic full of squirrels. No one can blame the squirrels for their survival instincts, or for seeking food and shelter; the fault falls upon the one who encouraged their residency.

I would caution the Brits to employ reason and critical thinking above the emotional knee-jerk of nationalist sentiment; sentiment is seldom a wise leader and slogans are generally a poor substitute for substance. The US public is in no mood for new trade agreements, so anything new that may follow a Brexit would be less than favorable to the UK, I can assure you. We have vastly more trade with both China and Japan, and neither Party here can pass the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which has been quietly in the works for more than a decade, no matter how much our business interests want it. Britain would be ill advised to expect ANYTHING to happen in our current political climate, as far as a new trade agreement with the UK that falls outside the current agreements with the EU, at least for several years.

[crfriend]

Maybe we can still get Warren for VP. Maybe move up to President in 8 1/2 years.

Warren will not get close for the same reason that Sanders wasn't allowed to get close. The philosophy and values run 180 degrees against the interests of the elite class.

Even if she did get tapped for the VP slot, nothing remarkable would happen either economically or societally in the US. Congress will simply stonewall.

Whomever "wins" this time, the loser will be the general public.

[dillon]

I'll not be popular with some here, but I had hoped to see Elizabeth Warren throw her hat in the ring. She may have had enough credit to put HRC in 2nd place again.

Maybe we can still get Warren for VP. Maybe move up to President in 8 1/2 years.

It won't be Warren or any other Senate Democrat. They are too valuable where they are.

Tammy Duckworth would be a good choice, but she's a Senate candidate in Illinois.

[bobmoore]

I'll not be popular with some here, but I had hoped to see Elizabeth Warren throw her hat in the ring. She may have had enough credit to put HRC in 2nd place again.

Maybe we can still get Warren for VP. Maybe move up to President in 8 1/2 years.

Yeah, that's a great idea. NOT!

[skirtedMarine]

I'll not be popular with some here, but I had hoped to see Elizabeth Warren throw her hat in the ring. She may have had enough credit to put HRC in 2nd place again.

Maybe we can still get Warren for VP. Maybe move up to President in 8 1/2 years.

Yeah, that's a great idea. NOT!

Im with Bob!

She should hang next to oblabla ,Clinton and Holder on the west lawn, I'll spring for the rope , and a tarp to protect the grass! Ive never seen my country so divided !

[Sinned]

Dillon. You don't understand the political setup with the EU. How cam I describe it in your terms - it's a bit like having an UNELECTED bureaucracy governing America, which from the reading of other posts may already be in place, with the elected representative bodies being brought down to just one house and then the bureaucrats starting to impose federal or national laws in preference to state laws and in particular in a raft of non-essential legislation such as harmonisation of weights and measures, the straightness of cucumbers and bananas and others in defiance of what the local communities want. Then starting to take away state identities but leaving the state assemblies in place as non-essential ruling bodies. So California, Nevada, North Carolina and so on would exist in name only. No UNITED STATES of America - just America.

The EU's finances have not been signed off by its auditors more or less from the start because of a lack of financial controls and the scope for fraud. A bit like the financial environment that allowed such as Enron to trade fraudulently. But the EU is doing precious little to rectify the situation, unlike America which seemed to react well to the scandal. Our Parliament is becoming increasingly irrelevant and Europe is being taken over as one political union bit by bit. And do I need to remind you that the ruling class is unelected so we can't get rid of them. Oh, and also they ignore their own rules when it suits them. There is an article that forbids any intervention in any of the countries within the EU yet they way they dictated what happened in Greece, its monetary crisis and budgetary deficit and forcing in a president that was approved by the EU flew in the face of all that.

NATO was an entity well before the EU was invented and our place in it will not change if we exit the EU. The EU is quite frankly making a complete hash of the refugee crisis and it's involvement in the Eastern Europe situation is pathetic at best.

No, we may be close in geography to the EU but we are not necessarily a part of the family. Better out than in. Whoops, I've shown my hand.

[Stevie D]

Dillon. You don't understand the political setup with the EU. How cam I describe it in your terms - it's a bit like having an UNELECTED bureaucracy governing America, which from the reading of other posts may already be in place, with the elected representative bodies being brought down to just one house and then the bureaucrats starting to impose federal or national laws in preference to state laws and in particular in a raft of non-essential legislation such as harmonisation of weights and measures, the straightness of cucumbers and bananas and others in defiance of what the local communities want. Then starting to take away state identities but leaving the state assemblies in place as non-essential ruling bodies. So California, Nevada, North Carolina and so on would exist in name only. No UNITED STATES of America - just America....

Dennis,
I trust you are being tongue-in-cheek with your statements here. If not, then I have to say I find them disingenuous.

Whatever the faults of the EU, it is certainly not an unelected bureaucracy. Each member nation sends democratically elected Members of European Parliament to represent them in the decision-making, financial, legal, and procedural and other policies of the European Parliament. I quote from the EP website:

The European Parliament is an important forum for political debate and decision-making at the EU level. The Members of the European Parliament are directly elected by voters in all Member States to represent people’s interests with regard to EU law-making and to make sure other EU institutions are working democratically.
Over the years and with subsequent changes in European treaties, the Parliament has acquired substantial legislative and budgetary powers that allow it to set, together with the representatives of the governments of the Member States in the Council, the direction in which the European project is heading. In doing so, the Parliament has sought to promote democracy and human rights – not only in Europe, but also throughout the world.

The UK currently has 73 MEPs from all over England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. They are elected every 5 years by the people - people like you and me. All the MEPs are contactable by the electorate and will bring any concerns to the EP and lobby for change as necessary. They act on our behalf, so if you have pressing concerns, bring them to your notice of your MEP for action in the EP. If the UK electorate is collectively so apathetic that they do not bother to contact their MEPs, then frankly we have only ourselves to blame if things are not as we would wish. In the now famous words of John Major: we should 'put up or shut up'.

I have friends and relatives in Germany, France, Netherlands and Sweden, and often deal with businesses in Italy. I am grateful for the ease of travel and unified trading that our membership of the EU gives. In the more remote parts of Wales and Scotland the EU has funded many a road improvement scheme or community projects which have enhanced the quality of life for both people living there and visitors alike.

I am British (English) by birth and nationality but I also feel very much a part of Europe too. I believe we have much to gain by remaining in the EU and much to lose by quitting. Now I've shown my hand too.

[Stevie D]

Yeah, that's a great idea. NOT!

Im with Bob!

She should hang next to oblabla ,Clinton and Holder on the west lawn, I'll spring for the rope , and a tarp to protect the grass! Ive never seen my country so divided !

I can't believe I'm reading such hateful things on this forum. We are all entitled to our differing political views but statements like this are inexcusable. I hope you don't really mean it. Would you be prepared to hang them yourself?

If it's a joke, then it is in extremely bad taste, happening as it does to coincide with the appalling mass murders in Orlando, FL.

I've been a member of this forum and its predecessors right from the very beginning, perhaps 20 years ago. I still read this forum most days and will contribute occasionally, but stuff like this really makes feel like leaving for good. I have better things to exercise my mind on.

[crfriend]

[...] should hang next to oblabla ,Clinton and Holder on the west lawn, I'll spring for the rope , and a tarp to protect the grass! Ive never seen my country so divided !

Blast it. Mod hat on.

I just noticed this, and it's not just over the line when it comes to general decency, it's way over the line. We don't necessarily have to like "our" politicians, but calls to violence -- which is what this amounts to -- will not be tolerated.

As forum administrator, I am willing to tolerate civil discourse on contentious topics, but calls to violence are not civil discourse. Once more incident like this and the thread will get deleted and further excursions into the realm will be summarily deleted as well no matter which "side" they're coming from. Making matters worse, calls to violence can be -- and frequently are -- construed as criminal behaviour. I can't tolerate that, either.

Grow up. Marines do not behave in ways such as above.

[Gregg1100]

I'm with Sinned. The eu is failing, because of corruption, greed and incompetence. I wonder how many more countries are looking at how we get on before submitting their own request to leave.
How can the eu books not have been signed off for 19 years. What are they hiding ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqD ... ture=share

Eu may give grants for this and that, but will cost us a good deal more- may just as well pay for it ourselves, with the money that WON'T be going to eu.
The Germans run our railways, and a lot of coach firms---they are not going to give that up. Rolls Royce manufacture down in Goodwood are not going to jack it in and leave. Nor will most foreign firms that deal with us now. Some may, most won't. The bankers who wrecked the financial world in 2008 probably won't go, in spite of huffing and puffing. They know where their bread is buttered.
All the doom and gloom merchants are just fearful that their time at the trough of plenty may be coming to an end.
OUT for me.

[dillon]

She should hang next to oblabla ,Clinton and Holder on the west lawn, I'll spring for the rope , and a tarp to protect the grass! Ive never seen my country so divided !

That's about the level of debate I've come to expect from those on the far fringes. If you think you have never seen the country more divided, then you clearly don't remember the 1960s. We are actually less ideologically split now than we were then; but back then we did not have the 24/7 electronic propaganda machines reinforcing image over fact. And people seemed more willing to employ critical thinking, perhaps because we had actual journalism back then, and not one-sided, anger-inducing infotainment. But people still had the unfortunate tendency to boil complex issues down to simplistic slogans and respond, as in your case, thoughtlessly.