Windows 8 -- Just shoot me now.

[Sinned]

Hi skrtngsttl,

I left an major insurance company last September and they were still using Windows XP on all the machines that I could see. They had just upgraded all the machines with new Dells just before I left. So I guess that they either had a full site licence or just transferred the product keys. My son says that his company ( a small holiday firm providing fully escorted holidays for the elderly ) is also still running XP. My take on this is that if the OS is stable and provides the need for access to older mainframe applications as well as newer ones then why change irrespective of whether the OS is supported by MS or not? What do a company pay IT support staff for? I know that they can't do miracles but there's the perception that they can do a hell of a lot. There's an awful lot of man hours needed ( and to fund ) to test a new OS - it's not like a home installation with a stand alone PC or laptop. With thousands of notworked machines and proprietary applications you can't just install and go. Even patches need careful inspection before being applied. I've had this conflict all through my IT career having been involved mainly in support. I know that these companies are not unique and the installed XP base is probably a lot bigger than you or I imagine.

[skirtingseattle]

Sinned,

I am also involved in the IT industry and I am quite aware of the vast numbers of XP installations in homes and in businesses. I also know intimately the issues of legacy applications not working with the latest Microsoft OS releases. I have worked on a number of projects from datacenter consolidations to Active Directory domain collapses to app compatibility testing, app packaging, software testing, and so on and so forth for well over a decade. I have a large number of certifications from Cisco and Microsoft and I am considered an expert scripter. That being said, those companies that continue to sit on hundreds/thousands of XP installations today have only themselves to blame for their impending debacle.

I am not picking on the vast majority of IT workers at these companies, who work their tails off far more than 40 hours a week to keep companies operating and the doors open. I point my finger at the CIOs and CFOs who have been bean counters the last few years (people who want to make their financials look good during their tenure by denying the need for capital outlays, and then bale on the company to leave it to the next person to spend large capital sums to fix the mess they left behind). My only recommendation to IT folks who are unfortunate to work at such businesses would be to leave while they can because they will be held responsible for the terrible pain that will be inflicted to bring their companies into the second decade of the 21st century. The speed of change is only getting faster, and time waits for no man/woman.

Chris

[Sinned]

With the winding down of Windows 7 type interface then there needs to be an awful lot of investment to port legacy and all the other applications to the touch screen OS's coming out. This is going to be a huge undertaking and it's not certain how they're going to port the legacy applications. I had a similar problem about eighteen years ago when moving from smart Davox terminals to PC's. Getting a solution to displaying mainframe sessions in a Window was unproven technology then. I remember that we had to use a newly developed piece of software but I can't remember the name of it. But yes, I agree with you that the CEO's and CIO's probably are not aware of the huge costs involved. I don't have the certificates and probably not the depth of experience that you have so I bow to you, O Guru!!!! LOL

Dennis

[crfriend]

I've been in the field for going on a third of a century, and I assure you that CIOs and CEOs know completely what it costs to completely retool an environment, and that's one of the reasons it happens at such a glacial pace. Sure, part of it is general greed about not wanting to spend vast sums of money, but some of it is risk-avoidance behaviour because the disruption to the business is a very real probability -- not possibility -- that could likely cost more than the mere upgrade itself.

Change for the sake of change is usually a bad idea; an enterprise needs a reason to change -- especially if it'll mean disruption to operations. Microsoft were utter idiots to deprecate the "classic" interface to Windows as all it is is a shell; they could well have allowed users the choice to use the "new" iPad-style interface or the "classic" desktop interface as appropriate for the user and the device that the user is interacting with. The new shell is all bling and touch-friendly but is a very bad UI for a desktop system.

[Zorba]

Long term - desktop systems - and many laptops - will NOT become touch centric; although there will be those who try. Touch makes sense in many applications, a desktop system isn't one of them. I can already see the worker's compensation lawsuits...

"Classic Shell" fixes most of the problems with Windows 8 - and a new product called "Modernmix" fixes the problems with the stupid full screen "apps" - if there are any of them worth running that is. What I see are a bunch of home/game oriented crapware designed to part a user from their money.

Although I'm highly annoyed with M$ for promulgating this mess - the blame doesn't entirely rest with them. Blame Apple (and their clones, Android et al) for that - and Apple is heading in the same direction with their increasing iOS and OS X convergence, I had to go into my brand new Mac's OS to reverse the direction of the scroll wheel as a for instance.But, at least it was an option - M$ didn't even give us that.

XP is NOT stable when compared to Windows 7. Its also a dog when it comes to moving data across a network (among other things), Win 7 is far more stable, and quicker in most instances. With that said, if M$ was smart, they'd continue to patch XP under some kind of paid support agreement. They'd make a bundle, and those who need to run XP for legacy reasons (there are PLENTY), would be glad to pay it. But I will point out that for the most part, software written in 1985 will still run under the latest version of Windows - contrast that to Apple who breaks EVERYTHING with their 1-1/2 year OS release cycle. If its 2+ years old, Apple doesn't support it very well, if at all...

[crfriend]

... And your idiot Barista just did it again -- knocked a beer over onto his laptop.

Knowing from last time that the keyboard did not recover properly from a simple drying I took a further step this time -- I removed the keyboard within about 5 minutes and put it under the kitchen faucet and rinsed it thoroughly. It's in my car at the moment (which is at a low oven-temperature in the sun) to dry out, which I figure should take about 15 minutes at 120 degrees F. The last time I did this it cost me a shade more than fifty bucks for a new keyboard.

At least the laptop seems OK, as I'm typing this on it, albeit with a detached USB keyboard.

[r.m.anderson]

Ya gotta learn "No toucha the apps on the immovable screen - damn W8"!
That AND keep liquids from lubricating working keyboard pieces and parts !

Recently bought W7 Ultimate and am preparing to replace W8 with it on my laptop.
Hope this will be a pleasant easy to do process without taking a few swigs out of the bottle.

[Jock]

Hope this will be a pleasant easy to do process without taking a few swigs out of the bottle.

No - taking a few swigs is part of the process
"Slainte!"