skirtcafe.org

Zorba wrote:The last time I wore a tie was about 1996. There isn't a shirt on the planet that is comfortable with a necktie attached to it. I don't like Mandarin collars either - I want a scoop neck - or a V neck - so I can breathe! And be able to display a necklace or two. Neckties just look silly - at best. I certainly am not particularly inclined to show more respect to a tie wearer - it shows their mentality.

Why do you think a necktie looks silly, but necklaces don't? Neither has a real function beyond decoration, so this seems to me to simply be a reflection of your personal preferences, which is fine.

I choose to wear a tie at work most days. I am expected to be smart as I have frequent customer contact and a tie allows me to change the look of my "uniform" to reflect how I feel. In my previous job I could have worked in jeans and t shirt but chose to wear a shirt and tie because the production staff all had to wear a uniform and, to my eye, it would have been disrespectful to turn up looking ready for a shift at the rubbish tip. Very few of the managers at that company ever wore anything apart from jeans and the difference in how we were treated by the production team was obvious and certainly worked to our advantage. Was it the tie? Or just the reciprocation of a respectful attitude? I don't know, but I will continue to wear a tie when I think it appropriate and to dress down when that is preferable.

How I would feel if I was required to wear a tie is a different story. I detest compulsion. There are times when rules add real value or improve safety, but rules for rules sake really hack me off.

Have fun,


Ian.

(Today: black shirt, dark double breasted suit and a bright red tie with narrow dark blue and white diagonal stripes.

This evening: above the knee light stone coloured skirt with a polo shirt, probably white.)

I'll admit that as far as looks go, its largely subjective - but necklaces aren't nearly as hot or stifling. Like I said in an earlier post, I prefer my necklines to be WELL away from my neck, a scoop or V neck, and preferably no collars. Collars are for dogs. I don't want to be able to get a finger or two between my neck and neckline - I want to be able to drive a bus through there! That's comfort, and looks better too.

I also think necklaces, chose wisely, look good. Ties just look silly - at best.

Milfmog wrote:

Zorba wrote: I want a scoop neck - or a V neck - so I can breathe! And be able to display a necklace or two...

Why do you think a necktie looks silly, but necklaces don't? Neither has a real function beyond decoration, so this seems to me to simply be a reflection of your personal preferences, which is fine...

I'm with you, Zorba... hate neckties, love necklaces.

Milfmog, there is also a rebellious and personal freedom facet to wearing a necklace... it is one more element of self expression that, like skirts, have been considered "off limits" to men (except for the huge necklaces seen on baseball players and other men). I'm talking about delicate or somewhat feminine necklaces, such as a single pearl pendant. I like to convey the same message with necklaces that skirts convey, namely "Hey, guys can wear this too!".

skirtingtheissue wrote:[... T]here is also a rebellious and personal freedom facet to wearing a necklace... it is one more element of self expression that, like skirts, have been considered "off limits" to men (except for the huge necklaces seen on baseball players and other men). I'm talking about delicate or somewhat feminine necklaces, such as a single pearl pendant. I like to convey the same message with necklaces that skirts convey, namely "Hey, guys can wear this too!".

I have worn necklaces on and off over the years ranging from a very "masculine" one that consisted of a late-1960s-era disk read/write head suspended from a simple chain (now sadly lost) to a unicorn that I wore for years, on down to a simple quartz crystal which I also wore for a few years (which I still have but the chain needs to be replaced).

I never perceived any backlash from any of them, and actually got compliments for them over the years.

skirtingtheissue wrote:

Milfmog wrote:Why do you think a necktie looks silly, but necklaces don't? Neither has a real function beyond decoration, so this seems to me to simply be a reflection of your personal preferences, which is fine...

I'm with you, Zorba... hate neckties, love necklaces.

Milfmog, there is also a rebellious and personal freedom facet to wearing a necklace... it is one more element of self expression that, like skirts, have been considered "off limits" to men (except for the huge necklaces seen on baseball players and other men). I'm talking about delicate or somewhat feminine necklaces, such as a single pearl pendant. I like to convey the same message with necklaces that skirts convey, namely "Hey, guys can wear this too!".

All of which is fine by me, but completely fails to answer the question I posed; namely "Why do you think a necktie looks silly, but necklaces don't?" I should also point out that I choose to wear a tie and use that as an element of personal expression when a skirt would probably intrude on what I am trying to achieve; should I be denied that option just because someone has arbitrarily decided it looks silly?

Just curious.


Ian.

The necktie seems in our Western culture to have been the sartorial stamp of the well-dressed professional male for several generations now.
I grew up and was educated into this culture and so it shall remain for me while I remain 'professional'.

To present in any sort of official capacity without a necktie in place would simply not do, e.g. to address a roomful of delegates or do a hospital ward round, visit one's Bank manager or solicitor &c. require this formal piece of apparel to be in place, if nothing else, just to conform to established convention.

Lately, attending lectures at meetings /conventions I notice that a lot of the younger professionals 'dress down' and attend in casual attire. Not so the ladies, who to a 'man' dress to the nines and are very easy on the eye as a direct result.

It's down to 'the occasion', so the necktie can be regarded as an 'occasional' requisite.

I recently dropped off a generator for service on my way to work and the owner of the establishment came down especially to talk to me, addressing me as Dr.K &c. and remarked that the number of people walking through his front door wearing a necktie could be counted on the fingers of one hand!

T.

I have spent most of my working life in an office and for most of that time have worn a tie. Although I am temporarily between jobs I do actually like wearing a tie to the office and think that it does project a more professional image. Incidentally with some of my more formal skirts I have experimented with wearing a shirt, tie and even a jacket and have found some combinations that look particularly fetching. So a tie with a skirt is not an impossible combination. I would only wish that MOH would give me the opportunity!

Although the number of times I have worn a tie in the last few decades is very small, and I am all in favour of a relaxed look, I must say that there are some beautiful ties on the market and they are the only item for men with a bit of fantasy, colour, pattern ... beauty.

When have I worn a tie? when I need or wanted to wear a jacket. I'm not part of the tartan police, far from it, but this picture just does not appeal to me. The kilt and the smile are wonderful, but the open neck with a formal jacket ... No! not for me.
Martin

Hi Martin,
yes, that look is wrong in my eyes too, had he lost the jacket, maybe it wouldn't have been quite so bad.
There is a limit to mixing the casual/formal and that doesn't quite gel.
Gods, am I gettiing "conservative" in my old age?
Steve.

My neck and upper chest area needs room to breathe and dissipate heat. A necktie, especially with accompanying jacket (often WOOL of all things!) is the exact opposite of what is needed. Men tend to "run hot" as it is, and we're the ones forced to wear hot, uncomfortable clothing!

Now for the subjective stuff: I, along with an increasing number of "others", view the necktie as a sellout, the symbol of the male slave, the badge of mindless conformity. When I see someone in a necktie, my respect level actually goes DOWN, and my pity level goes UP. Either the guy is full of himself, and thinks a tie makes him look more important/"professional"/authoritative (QUITE the opposite!) - OR - the poor guy is forced to wear the damn thing and really doesn't want to (which is the vast majority of tie wearers, methinks). Ties are often made of pretty fabrics - why not use that fabric for a shirt or a skirt where it can really be appreciated? Necklaces generally are prettier - I wear 3 every day.

I also generally dislike formality - its often used as a barrier between people; something I loathe.

Zorba wrote:When I see someone in a necktie, my respect level actually goes DOWN, and my pity level goes UP. Either the guy is full of himself, and thinks a tie makes him look more important/"professional"/authoritative (QUITE the opposite!) - OR - the poor guy is forced to wear the damn thing and really doesn't want to (which is the vast majority of tie wearers, methinks).

So what're your thoughts on this rig?

All I'm saying is that they can be useful accessories (or is "accessories" a bad word? {snicker}) and have their place.

I wholeheartedly concur that the "prettiness" of the necktie should be migrated to the rest of the male wardrobe.. I'd rather fancy a return to the "peacock era". I want a purple velvet jacket-and-skirt rig with flared sleeves on the jacket and a big old wad of lace at the neckline and cuffs -- and a contrasting waistcoat to go with same. So there.

(And a sword to keep the riff-raff at bay.)

Zorba wrote:I view the necktie as a sellout, the symbol of the male slave, the badge of mindless conformity. When I see someone in a necktie, my respect level actually goes DOWN, and my pity level goes UP. Either the guy is full of himself, and thinks a tie makes him look more important/"professional"/authoritative (QUITE the opposite!)

So basically you are simply prejudging someone else based on what he wears. Spot the irony yet? Or is hypocrisy OK if it is yours?

Ties are often made of pretty fabrics - why not use that fabric for a shirt or a skirt where it can really be appreciated?

Good question. If I could afford to have my shirts custom made I would certainly own a few more dramatic items than I ever find in shops.

I also generally dislike formality - its often used as a barrier between people; something I loathe.

It can be a barrier, but then so can prejudiced opinions based on how people are dressed. The best solution to both is simply to maintain an open mind and let folks demonstrate whether they are worthy of respect or not.

Have fun,


Ian.

I can't agree with zrb as the tie is just one part of the wardrobe and can enhance one's appearance significantly as displayed in some of crfrnds pictures. OK zrb may not like ties and he is entitled to his opinion. Being on this site has opened my eyes to alternative dress styles and some of you lean more towards the feminine than I do but then some of my skirts are more feminine which is tempered by what else is worn with them. Ties are unisex and mostly a colourful addition to the overall effect. As such they cannot be denied and I have some really coloured and pretty designs.

crfriend wrote:I wholeheartedly concur that the "prettiness" of the necktie should be migrated to the rest of the male wardrobe.. I'd rather fancy a return to the "peacock era". I want a purple velvet jacket-and-skirt rig with flared sleeves on the jacket and a big old wad of lace at the neckline and cuffs -- and a contrasting waistcoat to go with same. So there.

I can get behind flared sleeves and lace - but I don't like cuffs and tight things at my wrists any more than I do at my neck. I don't wear watches or bracelets for that reason - although I do like bangles as they're not tight. Wearing 7 of them right now as a matter of fact.

Yea, I'm prejudiced against suits, neckties and the mentality that generally goes with them. So sue me.

Zorba wrote:I can get behind flared sleeves and lace - but I don't like cuffs and tight things at my wrists any more than I do at my neck.

I figured that'd be your tack! That's quite likely one of the reasons that I dislike trousers. However, I'm not about to give up my wrist-borne timepieces -- or, for that matter, my -- dare I say it -- neckties which can get used for very dramatic effect at times.

I don't wear watches or bracelets for that reason - although I do like bangles as they're not tight. Wearing 7 of them right now as a matter of fact.

I've never tried bangles (other than the musical group, that is ) so I'm a bit ignorant on that count, but have had necklaces in the past and likely will again.

Yea, I'm prejudiced against suits, neckties and the mentality that generally goes with them. So sue me.

Getting beaten up by the Corporate Machine will do that to a body. I get it. But, once in a while one does meet somebody in a tie that's a good egg; if we ever meet and I happen to have one on I hope I'll be cut some slack.