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And men have not ALWAYS had the right to go top free in public. In the early 20th century men's bathing suits had tops. THe first guys to bare their chests at the beach were scandalous!

skirtingtheissue wrote:And men have not ALWAYS had the right to go top free in public. In the early 20th century men's bathing suits had tops. THe first guys to bare their chests at the beach were scandalous!

Not just scandalous. Many were arrested.

I work bare chested farming most of the summer. My wife does not have that privilege because of our employer, even though it is legal here in Illinois. Even in states where it is legal, employers may discriminate. Courts have ruled that companies can have separate dress codes for men and women. There is often something about the codes need to be in some ways equal; there is still room for legal victories for women here.

My wife has thought about trying it off the farm property, but is worried about church folks' reactions. She is comfortable at the nudist resort, but other than that still fears public reaction too much.

skirtingtheissue wrote:And men have not ALWAYS had the right to go top free in public. In the early 20th century men's bathing suits had tops. THe first guys to bare their chests at the beach were scandalous!

Now it has gone the other way, as a man you are expected to go topless. Some of us would like to cover their chests and be a little more modest.

renesm1 wrote:

skirtingtheissue wrote:And men have not ALWAYS had the right to go top free in public. In the early 20th century men's bathing suits had tops. THe first guys to bare their chests at the beach were scandalous!

Now it has gone the other way, as a man you are expected to go topless. Some of us would like to cover their chests and be a little more modest.

You know, I've always preferred swimming with my chest covered. Even going all the way back to my teenage years. I don't know why, it's just the way I am. I would normally swim with a t-shirt on all of the time.

Now that skirts, dresses, and tops are not a big deal anymore, I may look into buying a "women's" swimsuit this summer.

Why not eh? Seems like the most practical way to swim for those of us who like to remain somewhat modest.

moonshadow wrote:

JohnH wrote:At one time it was considered immoral to have women to sing publicly in 18th century Rome. George Frideric Handel (Georg Friedrich Händel) wrote the oratorio La Resurrezione with the part of Mary Magdalene initially sung by a woman. The papacy deemed it immoral for a woman to sing publicly so the woman was replaced by a castrato for subsequent performances. Händel was so disgusted with the substitution he left Rome to go to England.

I don't care what era you live; there are always going to be narrow-minded individuals.

John

I may be wrong about this, someone please correct me if so, but believe I watched on a documentary once that at one time, women weren't allowed to act in plays. In those days when a woman part was required men had to dress up as the female.

Interesting how times change.

In regards to your comment John, nothing changes until enough people stand up and make it so!

You're right, Moon. Males played the female parts.

And there's the whole subject of the vote for women, and the treatment of women even today in many countries where they are not allowed to be in public without a male. The sad part of this is that in many of these countries women had equality a few decades ago but religious leaders have imposed their beliefs on the population. This is the kind of thing that upsets me about organized religion. Believe what you want but don't force it on me.

Attitudes are very unpredictable right now. On the one hand, society has become more accepting of people who are different, whether they are of a different skin color, a different sexual orientation, or male and wearing a skirt. On the other hand, we see things like the ridiculous bathroom laws and people who have been emboldened in their beliefs that anyone who is different is, by definition, bad. It's a very odd mix.

Orange Apple wrote: You're right, Moon. Males played the female parts.

Nowdays the reverse is true, with female actors taking male roles. For example, Heinz Windermere, a prince from Macross Delta is voiced by a female voice actress.

Orange Apple wrote: And there's the whole subject of the vote for women, and the treatment of women even today in many countries where they are not allowed to be in public without a male. The sad part of this is that in many of these countries women had equality a few decades ago but religious leaders have imposed their beliefs on the population. This is the kind of thing that upsets me about organized religion. Believe what you want but don't force it on me.

I agree with you all the way! It's sad to see how women are treated in some of the countries where certain state religions run rampant. Sad thing is, there is a fair number of people with pull, trying to make it that way here.

I just hope that as women push for higher pay in the work force, more men will be allowed to nix the suits and start wearing more practical and comfortable office attire, just like their female colleagues. It would be nice if equality worked in both directions... not holding my breath though...

Orange Apple wrote:Attitudes are very unpredictable right now. On the one hand, society has become more accepting of people who are different, whether they are of a different skin color, a different sexual orientation, or male and wearing a skirt. On the other hand, we see things like the ridiculous bathroom laws and people who have been emboldened in their beliefs that anyone who is different is, by definition, bad. It's a very odd mix.

The U.S. is pretty much an even split right now, and we've got two opposite extremes running for office. Over the next four to eight years, I feel our constitution will be thoroughly tested. It will either be the beginning of the end of freedom as we know it, or the dawning of a new age of enlightenment. Only time will tell.

Edit: corrected typo.

moonshadow wrote:

renesm1 wrote:

skirtingtheissue wrote:And men have not ALWAYS had the right to go top free in public. In the early 20th century men's bathing suits had tops. THe first guys to bare their chests at the beach were scandalous!

Now it has gone the other way, as a man you are expected to go topless. Some of us would like to cover their chests and be a little more modest.

You know, I've always preferred swimming with my chest covered. Even going all the way back to my teenage years. I don't know why, it's just the way I am. I would normally swim with a t-shirt on all of the time.

Now that skirts, dresses, and tops are not a big deal anymore, I may look into buying a "women's" swimsuit this summer.

Why not eh? Seems like the most practical way to swim for those of us who like to remain somewhat modest.

So you buying a bikini?

JennC03 wrote:So you buying a bikini?

No

I was thinking of something more along the lines of....
http://www.womanwithin.com/Plus-Size-Sw ... ptId=22505

I like the idea of the skirt/dress bottom as I feel it would help to conceal the bulge, as opposed to your everyday standard "one piece" swimsuit.

Jury's still out on it... probably won't mail order this one, need to view a few in the stores.

moonshadow wrote:
You know, I've always preferred swimming with my chest covered. Even going all the way back to my teenage years. I don't know why, it's just the way I am. I would normally swim with a t-shirt on all of the time.

Now that skirts, dresses, and tops are not a big deal anymore, I may look into buying a "women's" swimsuit this summer.

Why not eh? Seems like the most practical way to swim for those of us who like to remain somewhat modest.

Do a Google search for "rashguard". These are shirts that are intended for surfers but have become popular for those of us who do not have the option of going topless.

moonshadow wrote:Cause I can't fight this feeling anymore...
... I've forgotten what I've started fighting for...
It's time to bring this ship into the shore, and throw away the ore forever....

Skirt on bama-fama fo-fama.. banana-fama, bo banna, fe-fi-bo-bama!

Brings back good memories... thanks, Moon!

--RIck

moonshadow wrote: The U.S. is pretty much an even split right now, and we've got to opposite extremes running for office. Over the next four to eight years, I feel our constitution will be thoroughly tested. It will either be the beginning of the end of freedom as we know it, or the dawning of a new age of enlightenment. Only time will tell.

ALL of my predictions related to this year's US presidential primary have been completely wrong. I have just stood by several times and thought, "This cannot be happening in my country." And yet is has, and I can't even imagine how bizarre the months of August through October will be. You're right; this election is going to result in some sort of "reboot" in American politics. One or both major political parties are in for major changes, depending on which candidate is elected.

moonshadow wrote:The U.S. is pretty much an even split right now, and we've got to opposite extremes running for office. Over the next four to eight years, I feel our constitution will be thoroughly tested. It will either be the beginning of the end of freedom as we know it, or the dawning of a new age of enlightenment. Only time will tell.

Allow me to correct an error in this comment... it should read "...we've got two opposite extremes..."

Fingers moved faster than my brain could keep up again!

moonshadow wrote:Over the next four to eight years, I feel our constitution will be thoroughly tested. It will either be the beginning of the end of freedom as we know it, or the dawning of a new age of enlightenment.

The testing already happened -- back in the early 1980s, and the result was your first supposition. The end-game plan was finally driven to completion in the early 200s. What we have now is nothing short of a charade, and virtually all of the freedoms we possessed up to the 1980s are nothing but wistful memories.

I'm not placing any bets on the "winner" of the upcoming "election", but I very strongly suspect who the loser will be -- and that'll be the vast majority of the US public.

crfriend wrote:

moonshadow wrote:Over the next four to eight years, I feel our constitution will be thoroughly tested. It will either be the beginning of the end of freedom as we know it, or the dawning of a new age of enlightenment.

The testing already happened -- back in the early 1980s, and the result was your first supposition. The end-game plan was finally driven to completion in the early 200s. What we have now is nothing short of a charade, and virtually all of the freedoms we possessed up to the 1980s are nothing but wistful memories.

I'm not placing any bets on the "winner" of the upcoming "election", but I very strongly suspect who the loser will be -- and that'll be the vast majority of the US public.

Well, true to an extent. Certainly the income gap has widened. Economically we are worse off. We also seem to be forming our very own "American Taliban", yet on the other hand, credit must be given where due. Civil liberties seemed to have been on the upswing. Lets face it, in 1980 you couldn't be an "out of the closet" homosexual in many places. Nowadays even in the more rural towns it seems it's at least tolerated. Same goes for men who wear skirts. I'm a perfect example of that. While I get some hoots and hollars, and a few dirty looks and snares, by and large, the great majority of people just leave me alone, and a good number are actually quite friendly. Almost as though they want to be "on the right side of history".

I've been in some pretty "red" areas in my skirts and have made it out unscathed. Somehow I think if I were trying this in the 80's... I wouldn't be as well off...

Then again... when the Trumpets start up... things may take a few steps back.... Don't be surprised if a few dark points in history repeat itself after next January.... Scary times ahead... scary times indeed....