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Exactly, I dont really expect communal unisex facilities any time soon. But personally I never liked multi-occupant restrooms. Even among other men I get uncomfortable. I hate the little gap between the stalls, I hate the fact that the walls and doors are so high off the floor. When ever Im sitting on the commode and hear a bunch of kids come in hooting and hollering I cringe waiting for them to peep under the stall door, or play some prank like throw a wet paper towel ball in my stall, or shut the lights off on me.renesm1 wrote:I have to say I agree. Changing villages (for some unknown reason that term is used in the UK) where everyone uses a single-occupancy changing room is fairer on everyone else.
I have to say that I hate changing rooms as I always end up catching a sight of something I'd rather not!
And yet I got cited once for an untagged car on my property. Why? Because enough people got together and determined a junk car was a blight and passed an ordinance against it. So rather than simply tolerate one silly vehicle that even had a "for sale" bill on it, I had to pay to have it towed to moms.bobmoore wrote:I wonder who the bigots really are. In general there are two kinds of tolerance: negative and positive. Negative tolerance is when we just ignore something we don't like or approve of under the principle of live and let live. Example: say you live next door and decide to paint your house purple with orange stripes. I hate that. But it is your house, so you have the right to do as you please with it, and I have no right to force you to change your mind. OTOH, positive tolerance demands that I not only allow you to do as you wish with what is yours, but requires me to publically affirm and support your position. Tolerance that is coerced is not tolerance at all, but the antithesis of it.
So those who support HB-2 are defined as bigots if they resist forced positive tolerance. That, friends, is true bigotry.
...and that is precisely what the bigots of NC are saying. "We believe there are only two sexes, and gender corresponds to sex, so if you don't happen to fit our proven-to-be-false beliefs (through no fault of your own) we will have you arrested, demonised and destroyed."bobmoore wrote:...You WILL comply, Comrad, or we will demonize and destroy you.
Try your local library, that's where I found it. The SFPL had several copies including one at my local branch.crfriend wrote:The history is actually quite dirty, and both "sides" profited mightily from slavery. There's more than enough tar to go 'round, and precious little honour.skirted_in_SF wrote:I would recommend you find and read the book The Half Has Never Been Told: Slavery and the Making of American Capitalism by Edward E Baptist.
I'll look around for a copy.
I understand what you're saying Bob, and I won't deny that it does take place, more often than not.bobmoore wrote:Weak kneed politicians regularly cave in at the mere suggestion of bigotry. If businesses had merely made individual decisions, and the proponents of men in the ladies room had been content to patronize those businesses (and the opponents not to), then no problem. But no, negative toletence--which makes civilized life possible--is not politically acceptable. You WILL comply, Comrad, or we will demonize and destroy you.
If the actions of somebody else do no harm, they should be unfettered. Some laws are made to mitigate risks of harm; thus understandable: e.g. speed limits.moonshadow wrote:Not a bunch of "thou shall NOT'S" but rather, what is the best possible solution to make as many people comfortable as possible while respecting individual civil liberties?
Not just the USofA, also UK.One method is for forward thinking businesses to begin changing over to single occupancy restrooms and doing away with assigning sex to them as it would be pointless. Other countries are on board... what's the U.S.'s problem?
Funny that, I was recently in a small cafe with just that scenario. The men queued for the one tagged "mens'", the women went into the first one available.if I'm in a looking at two single occupancy restrooms, one male and one female, the male is occupied, and I'm about to piss all over my self, I will, and HAVE used the women's room plenty of times!
Men can sit (easier with skirts than trousers*). Women sometimes complain that their seats are insanitary too, so they 'hover' and risk spraying the seat for the next occupant in turn.Disaffected.citizen wrote:So, some observations, thoughts, ideas:
Men are respectful that their "spray" may make the seat unsanitary for the women; women may choose the men's room.
New-build 'omni' installations would be cheaper than two separate ones, but UK regulations don't permit them (unless there have been recent changes that I have missed). A gradual changeover would occur if 'omni' were permitted.Businesses have already installed separate facilities; it's cheaper to keep them.
Women's urinals are available, but girls in the Western world are taught from an early age to sit down - and most never consider the quicker alternative (it does need practice; but girls can be taught the correct technique, the same as boys are) .Then there's the volume throughput; most go to urinate and most men can be through quicker with a urinal. Three urinals in the space for an individual stall room.
Men will sometimes socialise at the washbasins, once they have got past the embarassing business of peeing shoulder-to-shoulder with other men.Most men don't "socialise" in the "mens' room", women seem to go in twos, threes or mores to chat, gossip, apply make-up, etc.
Generally, yes. But not this man. I may have to follow some rules, but I wont do so blindly, and I'll complain all day about it.Disaffected.citizen wrote:Men (generally) follow rules, blindly?
As an occasional women's room user, I was often surprised about how nasty the women's toilets were. And I I don't spray on the seat, even a minor miss isn't a big deal because I generally lift the seat to pee. And yes I remember to return it to the down position when finished. Do women sit on the rim of the bowl?Disaffected.citizen wrote:Men are respectful that their "spray" may make the seat unsanitary for the women; women may choose the men's room.
True, but those who loose their job at the urinal factory can get employment working with contractors who remodel businesses to unisex restrooms, and replacing toilet sets that men keep peeing on.Disaffected.citizen wrote:There's an industry producing urinals that have a vested interest (urinals seem to require replacing more frequently).
Similarly producing signs for the rooms.
And signs to warn of a male attendant in the female room or vice versa.
In my house when someone is hogging the bathroom, we bang on the door. The QUICKEST way to pee is to pull over and find a bush or tree. (if time is of the essence) Soda bottles work well too.Disaffected.citizen wrote:Then there's the volume throughput; most go to urinate and most men can be through quicker with a urinal. Three urinals in the space for an individual stall room.
Most men don't "socialise" in the "mens' room", women seem to go in twos, threes or mores to chat, gossip, apply make-up, etc.
Can't argue with that!Disaffected.citizen wrote:There's no one answer; no right nor wrong. Businesses should be free to determine how they will service their customer demand. If they are intolerant towards one group, unless that intolerance manifests itself as overt discrimination or incitement then it is their "right"; why would I frequent an establishment that doesn't welcome me? Do I agree with everything above? Not necessarily; just food for thought.
I was laughing half way through reading the post.moonshadow wrote:BTW: In case anyone hasn't realized, this reply of mine was meant to be fun-spirited. I'm trying to lighten up a little bit. All this grumpiness is not good for the heart.
Your are 1000% right that all of this grumpiness is bad for the ol' ticker. 
Please elaborate.moonshadow wrote:...As an occasional women's room user...
I'll use a single occupancy women's room if the mens room is tied up and I have to go real bad. Im not going to wet my pants (or skirt) or damage my kidneys for the likes of society.Caultron wrote:Please elaborate.moonshadow wrote:...As an occasional women's room user...
moonshadow wrote:Ive never used a multi occupant women's room.
Ironically, I would feel more uncomfortable wearing a skirt in a single occupancy womens room because I would think onlookers would think Im doing the whole transgender thing and make a big scene when all I want to do is pee!
At least in trousers the onlookers might just chuckle saying "humph well... when ya gotta go!"