skirtcafe.org

Barleymower wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:30 pmThere are men on this forum who openly gay.

Yes, and so what?

There are men who are trans.

Yes, and so what?

There are men who are NB and probably a few SD's as a cherry on top.

Yes, and so what?

The point here is that one's sexuality should not enter the same equation as what that individual decides to adorn himself with. Full stop.

To reiterate again, the only time an individual's sexuality needs to come into play, or even consideration, is if somebody is looking for a romantic attachment and wants to maximise the odds of success -- and even then the odds are long. Anything else is a dangerous distraction.

moonshadow wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:45 pm

Barleymower wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:30 pm Yep they are all here posting away and if they saying anything about anything other than super straight MIS there's gasps all around like somebody wee'd on the strawberries.

Not from me. I don't care what other people do or how they live their life.

But it's always been this way and probably always will be.

"Rules for thee, not for me".

I know moon. Not from you. A rant that's all.

crfriend wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:28 pm The point here is that one's sexuality should not enter the same equation as what that individual decides to adorn himself with.

But of course, it does. Never mind the skirt=female thing, there are a number of men's clothing conventions which have historically been read as gay social signals, such as translucent shirt materials, shiny leather or plastic, and (unless you are in costume for the 1970s) short or tight shorts. Or indeed anything that draws attention to the male physical form, rather than the standard issue of shapeless trousers or long baggy shorts. When homosexuality was clandestine or even illegal, such social signals were presumably pretty useful in some circles.

Now, though, the conventions are much looser than they used to be. One of my colleagues, about 30 years ago, was described as "gay - wears red shoes"; but I think straight men can get away with red shoes now (except, perhaps, in the boardroom, or in finance or IT departments, which in my experience are typically bastions of male boringness).

crfriend wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:28 pm

Barleymower wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 4:30 pmThere are men on this forum who openly gay.

Yes, and so what?

There are men who are trans.

Yes, and so what?

There are men who are NB and probably a few SD's as a cherry on top.

Yes, and so what?

The point here is that one's sexuality should not enter the same equation as what that individual decides to adorn himself with. Full stop.

To reiterate again, the only time an individual's sexuality needs to come into play, or even consideration, is if somebody is looking for a romantic attachment and wants to maximise the odds of success -- and even then the odds are long. Anything else is a dangerous distraction.

Anyone else's sexuality or gender identity is of no consequence to me. Everyone should be free to decide for themselves.

This forum is Men in Skirts. I believe it is for discussion, promotion and support of mens fashion choices. To wear whatever they like within the bounds of decency for where you are.

Barry

Barleymower wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:37 am I get what Luibang is trying to do.
Correct me please if wrong:
you want to find something skirtwise which will be acceptable male garment. One that will be picked up by average Joe and bunged on like a pair of jeans.

There are however some fields, rivers, mountains and lava to cross to get there.
1. Currently in the western would, the one we live in, the only skirt available to men is the kilt and that can be a bit suspect.
2. Outside of the kilt you can get away with wrapping a towel around your waiste and that's about it.
3. The skirt has become the epitome of womanhood, a flag that shouts "I'm female".

It isn't of course, it's just a rag but in the minds of many folk it means a whole lot more.
My advice is to wear what you want and be happy that you (unlike many others) have the nerve to do it.

At present, kilting is almost the only exception to the rule, the Taboo.

Regarding the Mainstream, I think that, ultimately, a few fairly specific designs will gain traction. That is, a few designs will finally be accepted as mens wear. Candidate designs have been discussed before, and these have tended to be fairly bland.

Other skirted rigs, which include many possibilities, will be reserved for women. Generally, the word "skirt" will be assumed to be a label for a female garment.

I’m kinda late to this party, but, for the record, I’m not interested in how I’m perceived by the public, which is why I wear dresses, heels (when the mood strikes), handbags and jewelry, that’s me, that’s the image I choose to present. I wear what I like, how I like, if that’s seen as “flamboyant”, hey, so be it, I march to the beat of MY drummer and mine alone.

JeffB1959 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 12:15 am I’m kinda late to this party, but, for the record, I’m not interested in how I’m perceived by the public, which is why I wear dresses, heels (when the mood strikes), handbags and jewelry, that’s me, that’s the image I choose to present. I wear what I like, how I like, if that’s seen as “flamboyant”, hey, so be it, I march to the beat of MY drummer and mine alone.

I am also not interested in how I am perceived by the public. I wear the clothing that I wear only to please myself. Men’s skirts will not happen in our lifetimes even if you are only in your 30’s, don’t look for it to happen! The problem in Western Culture is that women are considered to be inferior to men even though much lip service is paid to equality. It is just lip service and nothing more. In America, women still make 80 cents for every dollar that men make. The patriarchy controls our society and will do everything to keep women down so they don’t loose power. Therefore any man that emulates a woman in any manner is lowering his status and is shunned by the patriarchal society and therefore he will be labeled is LGBTQ. The situation will only change when women are acknowledged as real equals to men which may never occur, so don’t hold your breath for this change to occur.

The best thing to do is to enjoy what you want to wear and not worry about being labeled as LGBTQ. The alternative is to live your life stuck in the Man-Box with no hope of escape.

wrote:The best thing to do is to enjoy what you want to wear and not worry about being labeled as LGBTQ.

Said differently, not worry about being nexted by almost every woman before anything happens. I really can't understand why so many people miss this elephant in the room (or maybe I'm just having the feeling that a lot of members miss it because of a minority, that could also be the case). Note that this remark is not any kind of attack or whatever, more a lassitude.
I'll just say, maybe all these "gender conversations" are being too frequent lately. I feel it's at the root of most of the conflicts that happened in the past year, and seem to appear on almost every topic.

Grok wrote: ↑Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:48 pm Generally, the word "skirt" will be assumed to be a label for a female garment.

Labels, what are they really? What about LGBTQ ?
Lesbian, gay, bi, trans and queer. There's nothing wrong with being anyone of those 'labels'. Call me anything you want that's up to you, it doesn't change who I am. Labels only exist in people heads. You can always bash their heads if you don't like it.
A skirt is labeled a female garment. OK label it a female garment. I could say to that "great!" Women get all the best clothes, men get a pile of dull rags.
The patriarchy.get a pile of rags, that's odd.

Spirou003 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:55 pm I'll just say, maybe all these "gender conversations" are being too frequent lately. I feel it's at the root of most of the conflicts that happened in the past year, and seem to appear on almost every topic.

There's massive worldwide variation here too. My brother was over last week and was asking whether I got annoyed about all the Pride month stuff. I said that if my work hadn't sent an email about it I wouldn't have known it was on. Apparently in some places it's a big thing.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:58 pm Call me anything you want that's up to you, it doesn't change who I am.

That's what I'm sayin'.

I get called by a female pronoun now and then. It doesn't bother me. I know what I am.

Sometimes you just gotta let the river carry you.

Spirou003 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:55 pm Said differently, not worry about being nexted by almost every woman before anything happens. I really can't understand why so many people miss this elephant in the room (or maybe I'm just having the feeling that a lot of members miss it because of a minority, that could also be the case).

Many of us don’t deal with the elephant because we are married. If you are not married, the elephant could be considered a gift. Do you really want a relationship with someone who does not accept you for who you are? In this case it is much better to get next-ed. Since I have been married I was asked out by two women who found me interesting because I was wearing a skirt and women’s shoes. I told them I was married and declined their invitations. Artsy and intelligent women are more open to men that march to their own drum rather than trying to be part of the alpha male herd of clones.