skirtcafe.org

STEVIE wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 5:37 am What difference would that make Jamie, if he wore a skirt though?
Steve

It would be one small step which is probably what's needed to change a monolith.
Unfortunately in this instance a skirt would probably get laughed at, ridiculed and have little chance of effecting change.
Barry

Ozdelights wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:28 pm If you had been skirt wearing well before the election would you have been elected? If so then it would have been difficult for them to object to you wearing a skirt anytime.

I think if I ran now I would have just as good a chance, my interactions with locals hasn't changed with skirt wearing. As for wearing a skirt to Council meetings, I would have to get a feel of the situation. I am President and editor of the local newspaper and now wear a mini skirt in hot weather. I am also Secretary/Treasurer of a historic car club and wear a mini skirt to those functions. I was on the Board of Management for an organistaion and didn't feel it would be right to wear a mini skirt at meetings, although all the board members had seen me in skirts elsewhere. I think one just gets a feel for what is OK and not blindly push a point.

denimini wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:26 pm [. I think one just gets a feel for what is OK and not blindly push a point.

I would definitely agree. I was trying to suggest a little push back against dress codes that seem a little restrictive and possibly out of date. Why must morning TV hosts wear business shirt, coat and tie? Especially sports presenters.
I understand gowns to signify a judge make a decision about the law as opposed to her/his personal emotive feelings, but there are many instances of gowns just because 'we've always done it', or even worse I've recently seen photos of kindy kids in gowns etc 'graduating ' at end of year.

As previously said we should all dress appropriately for the occasion.

Ozdelights wrote: ↑Sun Jun 23, 2024 7:36 am

denimini wrote: ↑Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:26 pm [. I think one just gets a feel for what is OK and not blindly push a point.

I would definitely agree. I was trying to suggest a little push back against dress codes that seem a little restrictive and possibly out of date. Why must morning TV hosts wear business shirt, coat and tie? Especially sports presenters.
I understand gowns to signify a judge make a decision about the law as opposed to her/his personal emotive feelings, but there are many instances of gowns just because 'we've always done it', or even worse I've recently seen photos of kindy kids in gowns etc 'graduating ' at end of year.

As previously said we should all dress appropriately for the occasion.

I have really begun to hate this portrayal of men in the news media. Men are still portrayed as they dressed in the 1950!! Men do not wear suits and ties to work anymore unless they are a used car salesman, crooked politician (all of the are crooked), or a divorce lawyer. When will this change?

At funerals people are expected to wear black. I have a black dress for such an occasion. Last year I attended a graveside burial ceremony where the temperature was over 38°C/100°F. I was a lot more comfortable wearing the dress instead of a hot stuffy coat and tie outfit. And I was able to throw the dress in the wash instead of facing a dry cleaning bill for the suit.

John

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:18 pm At funerals people are expected to wear black. I have a black dress for such an occasion.

John

Well that is one custom around here that seems to be changing. Generally muted tones but rarely all black attire. I don't imagine garish colours would be appropriate unless the deceased had requested such. Mmm, I reckon I could request a colourful send off, I've had a good life so why not celebrate.

Barry

Ozdelights wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:28 pm If you had been skirt wearing well before the election would you have been elected? If so then it would have been difficult for them to object to you wearing a skirt anytime.

If you're presenting as female or non-binary: Probably no problem, and if there is an objection there's a good chance you'd prevail in a lawsuit. (The most common school of thought in current US law is that employers can have gendered dress codes, but they cannot make you dress inconsistent with your gender identity.)
If you're presenting as male: It'd be more questionable.

GoSkirtGo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:07 pm
(The most common school of thought in current US law is that employers can have gendered dress codes, but they cannot make you dress inconsistent with your gender identity.)
If you're presenting as male: It'd be more questionable.

What if you wear a skirt but a man’s shirt on top along with women’s flats? In words, you are not presenting as a binary male of female stereotype. That would be considered a gender nonconforming presentation. I wonder if the US laws accommodate that type of presentation in a company that is not typically inclusive. It is not a rhetorical question because I work for a progressive company and really don’t know what the answer would be in other American companies.

jamie001 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:48 pm It is not a rhetorical question because I work for a progressive company and really don’t know what the answer would be in other American companies.

Well, then you tick the "spectrum" box, label yourself (or it will be ticked for you), and that'll go on your permanent record. How many guys are willing to do that?

GoSkirtGo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 29, 2024 8:07 pm If you're presenting as male: It'd be more questionable.

With one exception: if you are wearing a skirt to express national identity, like a Fijian man in America wearing a sulu to work. National origin is protected under the same laws as gender identity (Title VII, etc.)

crfriend wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 10:09 pm

jamie001 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2024 6:48 pm It is not a rhetorical question because I work for a progressive company and really don’t know what the answer would be in other American companies.

Well, then you tick the "spectrum" box, label yourself (or it will be ticked for you), and that'll go on your permanent record. How many guys are willing to do that?

CR,

Yes point well taken, however at many very large and progressive tech companies I don’t believe that it is a detriment and I am not even sure that it would go on your HR record because they are not allowed to ask questions or document issues regarding your LGBTQ or perceived LGBTWQ status. Documenting you LGBTQ status in an HR record would be illegal in the state of California.

I was required to take HR training for this earlier in the year and learned about LGBTQ and other protected classes.

Ozdelights wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:31 am

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:18 pm At funerals people are expected to wear black. I have a black dress for such an occasion.

John

Well that is one custom around here that seems to be changing. Generally muted tones but rarely all black attire. I don't imagine garish colours would be appropriate unless the deceased had requested such. Mmm, I reckon I could request a colourful send off, I've had a good life so why not celebrate.

Barry

Regarding dress choices for funerals, the only occasions that I have worn trousers in the past five years were for the two funerals that I attended in 2022; otherwise, it has been skirts (and occasionally shorts) every day, summer, winter and all weathers between.

familyman34 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 8:49 pm

Ozdelights wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 2:31 am

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 10:18 pm At funerals people are expected to wear black. I have a black dress for such an occasion.

John

Well that is one custom around here that seems to be changing. Generally muted tones but rarely all black attire. I don't imagine garish colours would be appropriate unless the deceased had requested such. Mmm, I reckon I could request a colourful send off, I've had a good life so why not celebrate.

Barry

Regarding dress choices for funerals, the only occasions that I have worn trousers in the past five years were for the two funerals that I attended in 2022; otherwise, it has been skirts (and occasionally shorts) every day, summer, winter and all weathers between.

What is different about this "expectation" (wear black, or wear....) than any other expectation, rule, or customary social adherence to some norm?

Unlike Barry, the last two funerals I attended, I was dressed as I normally am; a skirt and shirt. For one of them, a very colorful skirt exuding elements of nature as the deceased and family specifically requested we not be drab and mourn, but to take joy in our lives and celebrate his. Granted, part of this comes from a Quaker practice of 'celebrating' a life, not mourning it. We seek to remember the good that person has shared with us.

I have also noted here, another funeral attended of late, also skirted (I'd probably stand out if in pants!) for a woman who in her 90's was inspired by my skirts enough to take some of hers out of storage to wear again. We, as before, continue to have on-going get togethers with both families mentioned.

I suspect it again comes down more to what is in our heads, than others -- if we are confident our attire is suitable for the activity, and caring in our behaviors, that should suffice-- and in my experience it has not been perceived as disrespectful or afoul of 'any rules' that matter.

Others here have talked about the challenge of attending church in other than the "expected" style, and reported little, if any, problems. Might the real issue be inculcating clothing with meaning beyond décor and protection from the elements?

The last funeral I attended I was skirted. It was a light sort of sky blue and I had a navy blue top to go with it. I was mostly unnoticed except for one rather nasty woman, the kind with the I need to speak to your manager look. She came up to me and told me in no uncertain terms that I had to leave the church as I was not welcome at this persons funeral. I knew the the dead guy well, as we were mates and we had been train spotting together for about twenty years. I approached his wife and asked who that person was and what authority she had at the funeral. His wife a very lovely lady said she did not even know who the person was or why she was even there as it was a private family and close friends only at the church. I went to the pastor and asked if she could be removed and it was done. No one knew who she was!