skirtcafe.org

I should not have listened to that Bill Maher link at work. I'm going to be laughing all day.

I have to admit, he nailed it.

The sad part is that there are youngsters alive today who would not get all the jokes -- because they've never experienced things. I'll bet there may be a few who read here who don't know what a "tint knob" is, or how upsetting it is to see orange people.

Over here I think we called it colour hue. It was a knob that the viewer used to set the flesh tones on the screen by altering the ratios of the primary colours, since the flesh tones were considered the ones most important to the viewer. Incorrectly set flesh could vary from a bright red to sickly orange, much like the Donald's, depending on whether he is in the beginning, middle or end of his tirade. I found the broadcast less amusing because a lot of his examples were American but, having lived through the sixties at least and seen a lot of TV, I could at least appreciate the gist of his humour. The others around the table seemed a bit like zombies though.

Sinned wrote:Over here I think we called it colour hue. It was a knob that the viewer used to set the flesh tones on the screen by altering the ratios of the primary colours, since the flesh tones were considered the ones most important to the viewer.

Whilst at lunch I actually re-contemplated my comment about the "tint knob" and then realised that those of us on the east side of the pond might not have any clue either because you guys use a different broadcast standard than we do in the US (the UK and most of Europe uses PAL (Phase Alternate Line) and France and Russia use SECAM (Séquentiel couleur à mémoire, also humourously called "System Essentially Contrary to American Methodology"). We're now on a different standard having ditched NTSC [0] (National Television Standards Committee, aka, sarcastically, "Never Twice the Same Colour") in favour of ATSC ("Advanced Television Standards Committee", although how "advanced" it is remains open to interpretation [1]).

NTSC used the phase of the colour subcarrier to determine the hue, or tint, of a colour, mainly to avoid problems with oscillator drift the local receiver. The range of this thing was remarkable, and Caucasian flesh could be rendered in improbable colours ranging from a vivid green to a deep magenta. "Donald Orange" was the result of having the "color" knob turned up too much which controlled the intensity of the colour signal at the receiver.

Notably, I have never encountered a television receiver that was properly calibrated when new, nor have I ever encountered a properly calibrated one in a bar, save for when I did the job (but invariably it'd be way off in less than a week).

I found the broadcast less amusing because a lot of his examples were American but, having lived through the sixties at least and seen a lot of TV, I could at least appreciate the gist of his humour. The others around the table seemed a bit like zombies though.

It's the host's show, and he was essentially doing a monologue, and, yes, the examples were all US-centric.

[0] NTSC was actually a brilliant tour-de-force of engineering for its time, drawing in experts in human vision and interpretation and even some psychology and physiology. The problem was that we already had a very large number of receivers that only worked in black & white and the new system needed to be compatible with the old. Getting it all to work correctly was a masterpiece of engineering ingenuity. The other side of the pond, on the other hand, didn't have a large install base and had the luxury of learning from what the US got wrong.

[1] NTSC, being an analogue system degraded gracefully in the face of bad reception, with only the presence of "snow" as evidence, a good deal of which was tolerable to human viewers. ATSC, on the other hand, is digital, so what you get is dropouts, compression-artefacts and smearing, or an entirely blank screen. There are also several sub-standards of it pertaining to aspect-ratio and number of scan-lines, and inevitably in-set digital up-scalers make bad decisions and the result is an awful-looking picture even with a powerful signal.

Funnily enough, we have a family friend, retired now, who worked for the MOD calibrating, testing and repairing all manner of electrical equipment and he was trained by them on B/W and colour televisions so he knows all about this stuff. He was at our house for tea tonight as he comes over most Mondays. He came up with the alternative for NTSC without any prompting. I was talking to him about it all just after you posted but before I had even read it. An example of serendipity in force, or just coincidence.

I thought that we were the east side of the pond and you west.

Sinned wrote:Funnily enough, we have a family friend, retired now, who worked for the MOD calibrating, testing and repairing all manner of electrical equipment and he was trained by them on B/W and colour televisions so he knows all about this stuff.

Small world, eh?

I thought that we were the east side of the pond and you west.

When I used "those of us" I was referring to the SkirtCafe community, and in the notional community the "pond" is just that and not a particular hindrance to the transfer of thought and wishes.

Coming up with an alternative to NTSC is easy; the hard part was making it compatible with the existing pile of installed kit.

Carl, over here the old B/W used 405 lines and colour used 625 lines. The channels BBC and ITV were the original B/W channels and BBC became BBC1 when BBC2 started transmitting. BBC2 was the test colour channel. I remember having a TV set with a switch to change over between the 405 and 625 lines when moving between them. So when colour came along we really changed all the TV sets in the country over a short period. Not a great problem as they were new and lots of families didn't have them. Of course there was backwards compatibility for a while until they tuned off the 405 transmitters. We had cable through a company called Redifusion but most signals were received through a rooftop aerial so the aerials eventually had to be changed as well. Set top aerials were considered useless.

Edited for correctness - Steve is right 405 lines. Memory deceives.

Sinned wrote:Carl, over here the old B/W used 425 lines....

405 lines actually.

In early 1969 we were newly-weds with no kids and living in a rented flat in Hampshire. We rented a big floor-mounted Baird colour TV, which had both 405 & 625 line capability, received BBC2 colour transmissions and the B&W channels as well. Ostensibly we got it so we could watch the Moon landings, which were transmitted in colour except for the actual Apollo 11 landing and moon walk footage, which was in B&W.

For Apollo 12 they brought a colour camera to the surface, but one of the crew pointed it directly at the Sun, burning the innards out, so there was no live footage of that mission from the surface. Weeks before ITV and BBC1 officially changed over to colour they were already transmitting a percentage of their programmes in colour.

In the 70s with our small children growing up they unashamedly transmitted into our living room in prime time ghastly footage of the 'troubles' in N. Ireland for children to watch. At this stage we decided to get rid of it and we haven't had a TV in the house ever since.

Tom

The first colour TV we had when I was a kid needed a converter box to use the 'piped Arial' we were forced to have. The roof mounted antenna was removed to clean up the skyline. Now we have Sky dishes everywhere and standard antennas for terrestrial Digital TV. Then we had BBC1, BBC2 and ITV (Thames TV weekdays and London Weekend TV at the weekend), now we seem to have hundreds of channels but oddly not much more choice.

Was that TV big? you bet needed 6 legs to support the weight. Full of valves and it broke down almost weekly. Often just a blown valve. Huge wooden box with a 20" screen and mono sound. But I found it great and was fascinated by the insides when the engineer called to fix it. Made by Bush in the UK.

Sadly due to the constraints of the antenna (piped system) and having to convert 625 to 405 and then back the picture was a bit fuzzy but was good enough for us. For some reason we moved to South Africa in 74 and they did not yet have TV! did not stay long thank goodness.

Today a 20" screen would be a portable, we have a 44" rear projection in the bedroom and 50" plasma in the lounge, but I miss the old days when if you were lucky the TV would work!

All this talk about TV is fascinating. I read one time that you folks over there in the U.K. had (or maybe still do?) to pay for over the air television. A concept that has not been in practice here in the U.S. at least as long as I've been alive.

Since I've lived in the Appalachians basically my entire adult life, having reception has always been sketchy. Marion it seems is no exception, being 50 miles away from WCYB's 15kw transmitter, and 100 miles from the 500kw+ transmitters on Poor Mountain, it seems nothing comes in here. So we must choose between cable TV or satellite, both seem to have lots of channels, but nothing on. We let the cable go again and simply watch DVD's and hulu.

We have two TV sets, a small old standard definition in the bedroom that we just watch DVD's and VHS tapes on, and a small high definition in the living room. Unlike virtually every American family we do not own an enormous wall sized TV as I think they're tacky and take up too much room.

I miss stylish TV's, sets that looked like furniture, you know the old floor model types that you could put a place mat and nik-naks on. I saw this on craigslist (pictured below), it's free, and I don't know if it works, but truth be known, if it did work, I'd just assume use this than the ugly flat screen we have just because it's vintage and looks cool.


What a beautiful piece of technology!

I've half a mind to inquire on it, but alas I must resist... I'm really trying NOT to accumulate a bunch of stuff again, even if it's free. If I were good at electronics and had the know how to bring it back to like new condition I'd like to restore it, but once again, I know it's just another one of those things that will just sit in storage year after year.

We actually had a TV like the one above when I was growing up, even though at that time the set was still probably at least 20 years old. (we were very poor). I remember when dad would get a little overtime at work he'd stop by the movie rental place and rent a tape, and then you could also rent the VCR to play it on so he'd bring them both home and him, my grandma, papa, and I would watch a movie every now and then on Friday night. It was a nice change from the normal OTA programming.

This was the early 90's mind you. I had no idea the amount of technology that was available until recently as I watched documentaries of what came out in the 80's and 90's. I never really realized how far behind the times we were, and how dirt poor we really must have been. That's one reason I'm not really as hip on electronic technology as many of the members here. Carl, while you were playing with computers in the 70's, my family (I wasn't born yet mind you) were just getting a home with running water.

But were we poor? I don't know, when I think back on those days really hard I don't believe we were poor at all. I hardly ever watched TV, and rather spent my nights drawing pictures and playing with my toys, which normally consisted of a few toy cars and some old wood blocks, scraps really that I collected. In my early teens when we lived in that old trailer in Thaxton the landlord owned hundreds of acres of farm land complete with fields, woods, a stream, an old cemetery, and a row of junk cars, and I had a dog. While my classmates were just exploring recreational drugs and getting pregnant, I was damming the creek, learning to swim, swinging on vines, throwing mud pies at the junk cars, and running around with my dog.

Shoot... kids at school teased me for the clothes I wore (not skirts, rather just raggedy old clothes in general). They wouldn't let me sit at the "cool table" because I had no idea what a Nintendo was. But I wouldn't trade my childhood for all the techno-gadgets in the world. Sometimes I think I was the last true American child....

...ironically a "50's child" in the modern era... who currently is a gender fluid Wiccan. Not sure how that happened!
But when I grow up, I want to be a 60's hippie.

The dreaded TV licence £146 for colour per year, big fines and a criminal record for not having one. The rules changed a while ago so that if you have a PC, tablet, mobile phone, games console etc that could maybe use the internet you also need a licence even if you never watch TV on them. Big Brother AKA the BBC are the ones who benefit from this 'tax' but do very little original programming (Mrs Browns Boys being an exception).

The money was also wasted on a Digital Village that never really worked and was, I believe, demolished for housing. The waste was in the tens of millions.

For me I watch Sky TV a basic package at £13 per month, a special offer.

Moon, I was a young 60's hippy and I suppose with my brightly coloured clothes I still am. I wish I had the flowered shirts and ties that I had then. They were uber-cool and would be again. Now THEY were flowered garments that I could wear. As to your upbringing, you weren't poor - your family may not have had a lot of money but you were rich in many other ways. My early upbringing mirrored yours. My father was a poorly-paid motor mechanic and both my parents had to work. Yet they managed to buy and run a car, buy a house and we had a TV set and I had loads of toys including all the new ones such as Meccano, Scalextric and they funded decent pocket money so that I could build r/c glow-plug models, static plastic models. From even 7 or 8 years old I could play out until 9, 10 at night in summer in the Park, an area of green with a children's playground adjacent to a major cemetery. The Nursery/Primary School was nearby and derelict buildings which were a delight for us. I was an only child but I had a small circle of friends that I grew up with and I was happy. The local community was small so everyone knew everyone else and looked out for each other. I was lucky and so were you Moon, don't regret any of it. Those experiences have made you who you are today.

If I may interrupt this frolic down TechnoMemory Lane, I want to take another stab at clarifying my original intent on starting this thread.

But first, Carl, I'm sorry you felt bullied by me. I'm afraid I don't know when to quit when I get fired up about something and I feel badly this was one of those times because the last thing I want to be is a bully. I've been on the receiving end of way too much of that myself.

From what I learned in that workshop I mentioned some 5 months ago I thought I saw an opportunity for us to partner with folks we might not have considered kindred spirits so we could all get what we wanted. Clearly, I didn't communicate my points well and in the meantime the people whom most of us, myself included, think of as "transsexuals" have successfully appropriated the term "transgendered."

Pity for them, they just undercut their ability to enlist allies.

But I digress. I would be surprised if we have any transsexuals in our forum who are actively transitioning. If we do, that's fine with me, it's just that there are other webforums that more directly address their concerns. Similarly, I've heard inklings from only one or two members of the Café who are what were called "transvestites" but who now prefer being called by the English translation of the term "crossdressers." I don't consider myself to be either even though most days of the last 5 months I haven't worn a single thing bought in the Men's department.

Since the election, I've felt an even greater need for us to ally ourselves with the folks in that identity alphabet soup that started with 4 fairly easy to figure out initials because one of the waves that swept The Donald was bigotry. And like it or not gentlemen, that element of Trump's base feel legitimized by his election. I am sure the label they slap on us fits more poorly than any I've proposed. This development, I am afraid, will not only create a less-welcoming atmosphere than we've enjoyed previously, but may lead to physical harm.

Whether or not I am right seems to be beside the point, my message has not been welcome so I will keep it to myself.

Please continue with the technical discussion. It's an area about which I only knew the broadest, original strokes and yet it is a subject that affects each and every one of us every single day.

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:Since the election, I've felt an even greater need for us to ally ourselves with the folks in that identity alphabet soup that started with 4 fairly easy to figure out initials because one of the waves that swept The Donald was bigotry. And like it or not gentlemen, that element of Trump's base feel legitimized by his election. I am sure the label they slap on us fits more poorly than any I've proposed. This development, I am afraid, will not only create a less-welcoming atmosphere than we've enjoyed previously, but may lead to physical harm.

Perhaps, however lets not forget that America is still the same America it was before the election. It's not like Trump switched on the hate, the hate was always there, Trump just brought it to the surface. In many ways, we almost owe Trump sincere thanks as he has exposed a hidden cancer in our society, a cancer that through the 80's and 90's we almost thought was dead.

However I believe it's important to point out that not all Trump supporters are hate filled bigots. Yes I know, I know, people on the "blue side" of the line tend to get angry when someone says "not all _______ do this or that", but the simple fact of the matter is, Dave, you yourself have warned me against the dangers of pigeonholing people into classes. I say this not to turn a blind eye to the public hate that the Trump candidacy clearly ran on, however don't forget, I'm living in the heart of Trump country, and I know many people who voted for Trump. Many of them I know personally and they are my friends. They know about what I wear, and they know about my stand on LGBT issues. In fact, some of them are LGBT.

Those people voted for Trump not because of a hatred for trans* people, or lesbians, gay, or bisexual people. They voted for Trump for a handful of other reasons. Not trying to get onto other political subjects on this thread, but I must point out, that people around here were hit pretty bad by the Obama presidency. They don't blame homosexuals or transgender people for the fact they lost their job, and I'm not saying that Obama is directly responsible, I'm simply saying that many people around here BELIEVE Obama IS directly responsible for the destruction of the local economy in these parts, which does depend heavily on coal.

These people don't give a crap if we wear skirts or not, granted, most to believe that you should go in the bathroom that matches your sex, but that's a different discussion for a different forum, it doesn't really apply to us. What applies to us, is these people don't care what we wear... they just want their high paying mining jobs back, because all that's left is a handful of retail places that pay minimum wage. The small towns are crumbling away. Some have latched onto the idea of becoming a "tourist town", but the fact is not every town can be a tourist town.

My point is, we are not the enemy of most of the Trump supporters around here, they know that, and they know who their enemy is. They're tired of seeing "MADE IN CHINA" on virtually everything they buy, they're tired of reading the paper every day and seeing "____________ COAL CORP TO SHUT DOWN ANOTHER MINE", they're tired of dealing with health insurance snafu's, they're tired of the greed and corruption that comes out of Washington (and Richmond). They're tired of democrats AND republicans, and frankly, they realize that Trump is really neither, and THAT'S why he got elected!

I hope I don't have to eat crow next week, and after Friday all the towns people come after me with torches and pitch forks, but I just really don't believe that as far as "men in skirts" go, there will be a whole lot of blow back from society. We'll get the same number of giggles, pointed fingers, and dirty looks we always have, and likewise, most people won't even bother to look, and a few might even offer a heart felt smile. As I stated in another thread, it's interesting that the closer I travel to more "liberal" areas it seems the more vexed people are about what I wear, meanwhile I have visited a great many "conservative" areas, around Tennessee, and the coal fields of southwestern Virginia and while nobody is running up to me squealing in excitement about my dress, they do leave me alone, they don't even snicker or point fingers. They just leave me alone, and the best compliments I received were in TRUMP COUNTRY USA, and the most offensive remarks and laughs I've gotten were in areas where democrats typically win elections... just sayin...

I didn't vote for Trump, but like it or not, he is about to be our president. I won't bend my knee to him and call him "savior", but I will give him a chance.... really I have no choice- and neither do the rest of us. Give him a shot, and by all means... lets hold him accountable!

I do sincerely wish him all the best because I want my country fixed just as bad as everyone else.