Do folks notice or not?

[partlyscot]

I have been going farther afield lately, just to and from the local shops so far. I am not certain, that I have been noticed, but fairly sure that it has been noted. No questions, certainly no hostility. I think of the 2 or 3 types that I wear, the one with the front centre pleat is often not noticed, as it can look like shorts unless you look closely or see it straight on. Perversely, it looks to others as if it is a pair of those baggy just-past-the-knee shorts which I detest! Yesterday evening the skirt was a little shorter, about 4-5 inches above the knee (I'm 6'2") the 2 guys running the store and the couple leaving the liquor store noticed, I believe, but nothing more than a blink up and down. I feel I detected a little....something from the guys behind the counter when I paid. I got the impression they wanted to ask, but were held back by Canadian politeness. Given that the weather is in it's hottest, stickiest phase, I am fairly certain some of them felt jealous!

[Caultron]

In the past week I had this conversation while hiking on a mountain near my home.

"Are you Scottish?"

"No."

"Are you Irish?"

"No, just crazy. One good thing about being an old man is that you get to be a crazy old man."

(laughs) "So why the kilt? Is it comfortable?"

"Oh yes."

"More comfortable than shorts?"

"Way more."

"Can you move more freely? Is that it?"

"Yes, great freedom of movement, great ventillation, no chafing..."

"Are they cooler than shorts?"

"Oh yeah, much cooler than shorts.

"Because now that I'm retired I wear shorts almost all the time, even in places where most people don't."

"Well, that's how it is. You should try one."

"Hmmm, maybe, ..."

So yes, some people won't notice you. They're more interested in their business. But most people will notice you. Of those, some will think, "Hmm, that guy's a little bit nuts but oh well, so what?." Some will think, "That guy is weird so I'll just ignore him." Some will think, "Wow, that's cool," or, "Wow, that guy has courage." Some will throw you a compliment or start a conversation. But in over a year of wearing utility kilts almost everywhere, I've never had anyone say anything derogatory. Yes, a few frowns but most of those are, "please wait, attempting to assimilate..." expressions rather than outrage or rejection. No fashion police, no mobs, no black helicopters, no circles of people pointing and laughing, no parents shielding their children's eyes, and certainly no, "Sorry, sir, but you have to leave,"s. Just stand tall, be friendly, and do it.

So just enjoy your skirt or kilt, enjoy doing what others don't expect, enjoy your bravado, enjoy your independence, and most of all enjoy being yourself.

[Zorba]

There's been the rare occasion where I have actually said to someone who was obviously staring so hard that their eyeballs were on little stalks (usually, but not always women): "Truth is stranger than fiction!". Or if they're further away, I'll just wave and smile!

[partlyscot]

I should perhaps put this in the "Seen , while out and about" thread, but it fits here too.

Gent with a very well worn Khaki Utilikilt came into the store the other day, I said hi, do you need anything, automatically, and he said fine etc and walked on...THEN, I noticed the Utilikilt, and caught up with him and made a little conversation. I hadn't even seen the kilt until he was walking away. If I hadn't noticed, it would probably been filed in my memory as him wearing worn work shorts.

[Sinned]

I've been out and about a bit these last few days and the most remarkable thing about my outings is the lack of response to my skirts. Above knee length in all cases. I honestly think that NOBODY noticed the skirt. I called in at a bank and had to wait in a queue to pay in some cheques and again no reaction - not a sausage! I honestly think that even if they do notice I don't think that they really care. At least that's my experience so far.

It seems that the only one that does is MOH. I was thinking of taking three or four short light skirts to Egypt with me, beach skirts like, and she is ranting on that if I wear any skirts then my daughter and family will refuse to associate with me. Yet when I talk to my daughter she seems very unconcerned about it. In fact this evening I took all my clothes out of the suitcase, threw them on the sitting room floor and said that since I was being treated as a child and unable to decide for myself what clothes to wear she was to choose some clothes for me and pack them as I was no longer interested in what I wear while on holiday. Not on very good terms at the moment!

[crfriend]

In fact this evening I took all my clothes out of the suitcase, threw them on the sitting room floor and said that since I was being treated as a child and unable to decide for myself what clothes to wear she was to choose some clothes for me and pack them as I was no longer interested in what I wear while on holiday. Not on very good terms at the moment!

What happened here is you produced an entirely emotional reaction, and if you play that correctly it could go well. Focus on the feelings that made you feel so, and why they hurt so much. Not to put too fine an edge on it, ask straight out how she'd feel if treated the same way. Don't offer -- or threaten, mind, but float the hypothesis as perhaps it'll be her next significant other who'll do it to her. (And, for gods' sake, don't bring that up in conversation!)

She needs to learn to view you as a fully-functional human being who has emotional needs and that you suffer without those needs being met as opposed to viewing you as the stereotypical emotionally-numb male automaton.

[partlyscot]

and she is ranting on that if I wear any skirts then my daughter and family will refuse to associate with me. Yet when I talk to my daughter she seems very unconcerned about it.

If this is so, then the next time she uses that argument, say in a very calm voice. "That isn't so. If you have some concerns of your own, please use those and don't palm off the denial on our daughter" I'm not sure if you have stated some of her other issues, I seem to remember a fear that you will get ridiculed in public?

[OldSkirt]

I've been out and about a bit these last few days and the most remarkable thing about my outings is the lack of response to my skirts. Above knee length in all cases. I honestly think that NOBODY noticed the skirt. I called in at a bank and had to wait in a queue to pay in some cheques and again no reaction - not a sausage! I honestly think that even if they do notice I don't think that they really care. At least that's my experience so far.

It seems that the only one that does is MOH. I was thinking of taking three or four short light skirts to Egypt with me, beach skirts like, and she is ranting on that if I wear any skirts then my daughter and family will refuse to associate with me. Yet when I talk to my daughter she seems very unconcerned about it. In fact this evening I took all my clothes out of the suitcase, threw them on the sitting room floor and said that since I was being treated as a child and unable to decide for myself what clothes to wear she was to choose some clothes for me and pack them as I was no longer interested in what I wear while on holiday. Not on very good terms at the moment!

I would suggest you exercise caution in this instance. Egypt may be more cosmopolitan than many other Muslim majority states, but there are still some very conservative factions who might not view your choices favourably. This could back fire terribly and provide your wife with just the evidence she needs to support her view. Also, if you were to encounter significant negativity it could impact upon the confidence you have built up here.

[Sinned]

ldskrt,

Egypt being what it is - an Arab country in a state of flux with some hostility to western influence, I wouldn't wear a skirt outside of the Aquapark complex. On the street it would be shorts for personal safety.

Crl, I think that you are right and this is an idea that I should pursue in a more rational manner. I know that my response was emotional to an emotional stimulus but then that is how she is at the moment. I still got the arguments associating me with transvestism homosexuality and even nudism ( where did that come from? ).

prtlysct,

Either my daughter speak with forked tongue or MOH is projecting her negativity onto this as you suggest. I think that maybe my daughter isn't happy about having a skirt wearing father but she is at least tolerant of it.

[Milfmog]

I would suggest you exercise caution in this instance. Egypt may be more cosmopolitan than many other Muslim majority states, but there are still some very conservative factions who might not view your choices favourably. This could back fire terribly and provide your wife with just the evidence she needs to support her view. Also, if you were to encounter significant negativity it could impact upon the confidence you have built up here.

I have been to Sharm el Sheik several times and worn utilikilts and sarongs without issue (I don't recall wearing other skirts, but that may simply be because it was so unremarkable). You will have to be aware that the street traders will pick up on anything out of the ordinary as a way to get you into conversation and sell you something. The sarongs produced little reaction (many of the crews on the dive boats wear similar garments) however the UK regularly got Scottish comments of one sort or another, ranging from "Hey Rob Roy..." to questions about bagpipes, caber tossing or haggis. All friendly and non-problematic, but a little hard on the nerves after a while and possible triggers of "told you so" reactions from your other half.

The one exception I had was a trader who tried to lift the hem of the kilt and discovered that 6' 3" and 220 pounds of very irritated Englishman can be every bit as intimidating as a Scott with a half-strangled octopus under his arm. He backed down very quickly, offering many apologies as he did. I suspect the laughter at his discomfort from the other locals did little to encourage him to try it again. Walking past the same chap on later days and offering a cheerful greeting simply gained a smile and a wave in response.

I should note that I have not been to Egypt since the fall of Mubarak, so do not know if attitudes have changed.

Have fun,


Ian.

PS My biggest issue was that whenever I went to find my sarong after a dive Carole had already pinched it, as she had not taken one of her own with her and the sarong was perfect for keeping the wind and sun off the legs. My advice if you go the sarong route, take a spare one

[crfriend]

Crl, I think that you are right and this is an idea that I should pursue in a more rational manner. I know that my response was emotional to an emotional stimulus but then that is how she is at the moment. I still got the arguments associating me with transvestism homosexuality and even nudism ( where did that come from? ).

Here's a challenge, and it's a big one: Attempt the argument from strictly emotional grounds and let rationality fade into the background for the duration. I rather suspect that few guys can do that (I can't; I get five minutes into something where I've been badly emotionally wounded and go rational), but it might bear fruit. I've got more than enough bruises and wounds from emotional versus rational arguments to rout an army. Perhaps the key really is to play the other angle. (Note that this tactic will throw your adversary and likely anger them. BTDT, so be prepared for a short-term setback.)

In any event, good luck!

[Sinned]

Crl,

Latest developments. I had a discussion with MOH last night on exactly the rationale that you proposed ( although I didn't read your post until this morning, great minds and all that ) but I think my emotional arguments lasted about a minute. Now it seems that, although she doesn't want me to wear a skirt in her presence yet, I can do what I want when she isn't around. She said that if I wore a skirt on holiday she won't be around me, BUT, and get this, but I am free to wear a sarong now. Now I wear the sarong doubled up and tied around the waist so that it looks more like a short wrap skirt, so what's the difference between the sarong and a skirt? Obviously in MOH's eyes quite a lot.

Anyway her main objection now is wearing a skirt out in the presence of Joe Public. She's now concerned for my safety as I will probably get "beaten up". Quote, "Don't come to me when you get beaten up and are lying in the gutter.", unquote. How I can come to her lying in a gutter I haven't quite yet worked out, but there you go. Now why she would think that anyone would even want to attack me just for wearing a skirt I just don't know. I mean the papers are full of articles about men in skirts being beaten up, aren't they? I'm sure if someone was ( like the kid in California whose skirt was set on fire ) then it would be headline news. I think people have more immediate concerns - job security, low interest rates, terrorist threat, what to get for tea and so on. Recent experiences show a distinct lack of awareness or interest.

Oh, the other thing that was mentioned was to be careful about not corrupting any children who would see me in a skirt. I didn't even try and answer that one! She did say that maybe I should seek out those other men who were into cross-dressing and that sort of thing. I did try and emphasise that I don't consider wearing a skirt cross dressing but alas I fear that good seed fell on stony ground!

Sometimes I feel like I'm trying to walk on quicksand with her as she changes the rules virtually in mid stride. BTW to my surprise it was quite a calm ( not sure if a monologue after my first minute's input can count as a discussion!!!! ) interaction with no raised voices. No threats of divorce or separation or anything. So where am I now, well I'm off out in a skirt in a few minutes to run some errands preparatory for our holiday. I've sorted four skirts out for holiday, pastel summer colours, which I intend to wear sometime when the others are occupied. I may even eat on my own one time just to prove a point, but I'm not sure what point I would be proving. I feel a lot more relaxed about wearing a skirt out and about now. { My kilt has just arrived but I'll let MOH open it. Dying to see what it looks like but self-control, self-control. Omni-hummm, Omni-hummm. }

Now looking forward to the holiday. Sun, swimming, food, excursions, fun, relaxation, reading and not necessarily in that order. My paperwhite is charged up with books, books and more books, but I will try to see tat MOH is not ignored.

Thanks for the advice and support - I still have bits of your advice not used and in reserve. Progress has definitely been made and there has been some release of tension even though the goalposts have now been changed to rugby posts. Sorry about this long post but it's just a relief to get all this off my chest.

Dennis

[dillon]

Corrupting children? I can't believe anyone still thinks that way. Just how old is your wife? Not only presuming that a man in a skirt can only be gay or transvestite, but then to speak of homosexuality as though it is a contagious disease? You have my sympathy, Dennis. You just can't fix willful ignorance.

[skirtilator]

Dat means, that if in some CULTures men wear skirts, that a skirt cannot be considered "women's" clothing otherwise it must be universally true that a skirt is for women only ... and then hume's law comes into play. The next layer raises the question, why does this only applies to skirts? What about trousers? If it was universally true that a skirt was "women's clothing," that would mean that trousers were "men's clothing," cuz you cannot have two separate moral categories. It is not universaly and it is not objectively the case that a skirt is "women's clothing." If you reject those categories, they have no bearing in the real world, cuz they are based on subjective opinion. Next time your wife hides behind the subjective opinion of others to justify her bigotery, start to make the case.

In da real world, most inhabitants don't even care, and those who care are in general not that bright. The skirt on a man is the intelligence detector capability. A sexist - towards men - subway poster tells me that, I don't owe any women a response, I am not responsible for the visual Impression my skirt leaves and any chick who start to flirt with me because of it is a creep and a sexual predator who hasn't her sexdrive under control.

Cat calling is usually not related to a rampant sexdrive. A woman owns the effects of her actions, too. People ain't mind readers but that doesn't mean, they cannot use it. A creep is an undesireable person by shallow standards.

Long skirts like the Macabi are more present in peoples' eyes, because of its length and elegance. The easy thing is, da stronger da reaction, da more closed minded or plain stupid is a Person.

[Taj]

Well, I've spent another weekend around town running errands, getting groceries, and buying hardware at Home Depot in my Elkommando and I didn't notice if anyone noticed or not. Sure was more comfortable with temps in the high 90s than the blue jeans clad crowd.