Dr Who

[Barleymower]

BM, I like this post. I am not saying I identify with any of the first part, but the last part I am doing my best to live to the max.

Mouse I don't think anyone here does. It's an unfair image of men. Men like women. Men work hard for their families and love their families. We have all of that in common.
I frett about what people are thinking but I'm trying really hard not too. I think everyone needs to rethink what it means to be a man.

[Mouse]

The question in my mind has nothing to do with the basis of the show. It had everything
to do with attitudes to men, and specifically men that wear "Women's" clothes.

Your statement is what's holding men back, strengthening the constructed concept of Men's Clothes versus Women's Clothes. MEN WEAR CLOTHES, PERIOD :!
Uncle Al

Thank you for the lesson in how to suck eggs Uncle Al. Don't you think I know that?
Shouting or using capitals is unproductive and alienates those who are on your.side.

I think Uncle Al missed the whole point of the show. In regenerating the Doctor should have gone into Jodie Whittaker’s clothes, The new doctor body in the clothes of the old doctor. Total logic in the story. Man doctor in woman doctors's clothes. Nothing to do with man having rights to wear a skirt.

[Uncle Al]

Mouse,
I was a Dr. Who fan for many years but lost out after David Tennant.
Local stations stopped carrying the show, and life got in the way.
(HBO-MAX now has Doctor Who and I can catch up on events.)

Thank you for the lesson in how to suck eggs Uncle Al. Don't you think I know that?

Not by what you've written.

Shouting or using capitals is unproductive and alienates those who are on your.side.

Yes, I used capital letters because I'm tired of people acquiescing to the perceived pressures
of conforming to Societies concepts and structures for humanity.

By your comments, WHY are you perpetuating the concept of men wearing women's clothes

The contents of a box(men) is not representative of the wrapping paper(clothes) on the box.

Uncle Al

[DrFishnets]

In regenerating the Doctor should have gone into Jodie Whittaker’s clothes, The new doctor body in the clothes of the old doctor. Total logic in the story. Man doctor in woman doctors's clothes. Nothing to do with man having rights to wear a skirt.

Yeah I too feel that when Jodie Whittaker regenerated back into David Tennant that he should have been wearing her clothes as that has been the way it has been since William Hartnell regenerated into Patrick Troughton. I wish society would stop this thinking that both genders have their own clothes because women wear men’s clothes and nothing is said yet when a man puts on a skirt society thinks it’s weird.

Concerning Doctor Who, I used to be a big fan when I was child in the 1980’s. I’m not really a fan of the new reboot series which has been on tv since 2005. The old classic series from 1963 to 1989 will always be the series I watch if I’m in the mood of watching Doctor Who.

[crfriend]

Shouting or using capitals is unproductive and alienates those who are on your.side.

Then why did you stop just one iota away from invoking Deuteronomy on us? You might as well have, because you used all the coded language therein that is only used to bash men and never even so much as scold women. Rather unfair, wouldn't you say?

Every time we parrot these unfortunate old memes we breathe life into them. We really should stop if we want to make a difference and move forward.

[MrSoapsud]

I can see why a number of former SkirtCafe regulars have given up and gone elsewhere when the resident mods keep criticising the members. I'm becoming tired of the constant negativity on the site.

[Barleymower]

I feel like I've touched a nerve.
Firstly I would like to establish they are not women's clothes, I'm with Eddie Izzard on that one. Then why did I say it? Because it is that word, that single word 'woman's' that epitomises the struggles we have.

There was no coded language. It's right there in your face. "Not yours!"

We are very much in the minority. Many, many other people out there are saying behind our backs. "He dresses in woman's clothes" snigger. "Get you ducky"
Careful I don't split my sides laughing. It's that kind of language that keeps us indoors.

Maybe we should say it "They are women's clothes". They are and we can wear them too. I can wear whatever clothes I want men's or women's. That's what women did. At no point has anyone said that trousers are not men's clothes. Women just said "we are wearing them".

I have heard it said "Ah but they are not men's trousers, they are cut for a women's form".
My answer to that:
"They are now! The ones worn by women in the early days would have definitely been mens trousers".

Now please stop getting at me.

[Myopic Bookworm]

I can see why a number of former SkirtCafe regulars have given up and gone elsewhere when the resident mods keep criticising the members. I'm becoming tired of the constant negativity on the site.

I'm trying to ignore it. But next time someone gets all prickly when other members engage in "continuing dialog on gender [which] is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom for men" (see above), I shall be tempted to shout SNOWFLAKE! And I'm not going to apologize for remaining a moderate feminist, despite being told repeatedly that such people do not exist.

[crfriend]

I can see why a number of former SkirtCafe regulars have given up and gone elsewhere when the resident mods keep criticising the members. I'm becoming tired of the constant negativity on the site.

Actually, this is just the "resident mods" getting tired of having anti-skirt rhetoric parroted on the premises.

Rhetoric has power, and how we wield that power is important. We can either build our community up or tear it down using rhetoric. I'm growing weary of seeing the same blasted memes being repeated ad-nauseum in ways that tear us down -- and it seems to be getting worse (of course, the entire social construct is getting worse at the same time, so this should likely be expected). I'm just hoping that it doesn't get any worse.

[Myopic Bookworm]

anti-skirt rhetoric

Where? I haven't seen any of that. I think you are letting your weariness cloud your vision. I've seen people expressing widely differing opinions on the topic of skirt-wearing and its origins, history, and social implications, but "anti-skirt rhetoric"... ???!!!

it seems to be getting worse

I think that's in your head.

the entire social construct is getting worse at the same time

Do remember that some of us don't live in your society at all, and we experience the communal insanity of the USA only at second hand.

If people venture to express their personal feelings on this forum, and you jump on them every time with bitter remonstrances, you do neither them nor the cause of male fashion freedom any service.

[rode_kater]

He is wrong and he knows it.

Are you sure? This is the Daily Telegraph we're talking about here. Their hate on anything LGBT related knows no bounds.

[Barleymower]

He is wrong and he knows it.

Are you sure? This is the Daily Telegraph we're talking about here. Their hate on anything LGBT related knows no bounds.

The Tory Graph. That explains a lot.

[crfriend]

I think Uncle Al missed the whole point of the show. In regenerating the Doctor should have gone into Jodie Whittaker’s clothes, The new doctor body in the clothes of the old doctor. Total logic in the story. Man doctor in woman doctors's clothes.

I don't know how familiar Al is with the premise of the Dr. Who series, but if the "regeneration" of Time Lords is fast, and there's no decision on the part of the individual being regenerated, then retaining the prior costume for an episode or two makes perfect sense.

I believe Al's shot -- like mine -- revolved around the phrase "women's clothes" -- i.e. those garments which are strictly proscribed and verboten to men. Even in humans, the notion is idiotic at best and asinine at worst. Why, here, we forward such thinking, I find unimaginable.

Who knows what happens in the universe of Time Lords. We're not necessarily qualified to even comment. But, for continuity and dramatic impact, as a human producer or director I would have strongly suggested some period of continuity of costume. Such is the magic of fiction!

[STEVIE]

There was an incarnation of the Doctor where he materialised buck naked.
I think it may have been the 1999 movie, but not being a diehard fan, I could be wrong.
Then we have the latest incarnation, Ncuti Gatwa, https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/doct ... -wcm7d9xqp.
The total cost of the outfit in the kilted picture is about £3,000, £650 for the kilt alone.
Only one reflection, it's a cheap kilt or a damned expensive manskirt, it cannot be both!
With regard to the war of words, and it is just words.
I have said this already, we are not the ones who will decide whether skirts are deemed women's or men's wear, our individual cultures and societies will do that for us.
Our only option to effect a change is to be out, about, loud and proud as much as possible but our campaign approach has to be radically different from the females because their original catalyst for change was based on a wholly unique set of circumstances.
The one thing we can take from them is the tenacity that was applied and the unity they clearly demonstrated.

Post by Bob » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:20 pm
Skirt Cafe is an on-line community dedicated to exploring, promoting and advocating skirts and kilts as a fashion choice for men. We do this in the context of men's fashion freedom --- an expansion of choices beyond those commonly available for men to include kilts, skirts and other garments. We recognize a diversity of styles our members feel comfortable wearing, and do not exclude any potential choices.
Continuing dialog on gender is encouraged in the context of fashion freedom for men. In particular, we recognize that gender is a complex subject and some of us may feel more "masculine" or "feminine" at times.

When Bob, wrote that all those years ago he could never have foreseen just how complex and contentious gender based conversations would become.
I will not be accused of starting or fanning a potential flame war, but would the mods not agree that stifling discussion is not in the spirit or the letter of that original statement.
In a nutshell, I conform to me, not anyone else unless I see a compelling reason for it.
Gods I hope normal cafe service can be resumed soon.
Steve.

[crfriend]

Gods I hope normal cafe service can be resumed soon.

As does the moderation staff. Trust me on that count.