skirtcafe.org

Carl,

If you're commenting on Hillary's looks or clothing style when you say She is Dubya in drag, fine, whatever.

If you're trying to compare their approaches to the business of governance, policy or whatever, there is no comparison. Hillary Clinton probably worked more hours in the White House as First Lady than George W. did as President. She has spent her whole life in public service; W. spent his whole life trying to find something he could succeed at. He should have quit at Governor of Texas. If you're basing it all on the Patriot Act, consider, it's become a third rail issue, in both directions. No one likes encroachments on their freedoms, even fewer will risk their life for it. The jokes being, as now amended, NSA has to get a court order to listen to your actual conversations (I think) and it hasn't thwarted a single terrorist plot.

If you're talking about foreign policy, it is the classic case of things looking different from the Oval office than the campaign trail.

Finally, when it comes to domestic policy, no one doubts Hillary is at least a moderate, probably a liberal perhaps a progressive. Nor does anyone doubt Bush is a conservative. Is Hillary hard to pin down? Sure. So was Lincoln once he got into office. Teddy Roosevelt's speeches covered every side of every issue, so you can take from them what you want. And you'd have a better chance nailing Jello to the wall than pinning down FDR. It's the mark of a skilled politician that they know what their general direction is, but stay open to compromise so they get what they can through the legislative meat grinder.

Most importantly, W. lead, if you can call it that, by bombast. Hillary leads by listening. See Ezra Klein's video on the subject. Some one of your friends probably posted it on Facebook.

Charlie wrote:Sorry to lower the tone of this thread - I saw the edited lowlights of the last Trump/Clinton debate on the BBC news yesterday. It occured to me that I've never seen Hilary Clinton in a dress or skirt; if elected, will she be the first cross-dressing US president?
Charlie

From charity dinner on Thursday:

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:The jokes being, as now amended, NSA has to get a court order to listen to your actual conversations (I think) and it hasn't thwarted a single terrorist plot.

If the court order comes from a secret court that is unaccountable to any civil body then it does not count as a court, and any orders that issue from it is not legal. At least not constitutionally -- and what was it that I was saying about the USA still operating in a constitutional manner?

Finally, when it comes to domestic policy, no one doubts Hillary is at least a moderate, probably a liberal perhaps a progressive.

We shall see what the results are at the end of the next presidential term. Recall that the results are what are visible even if inner workings of the machine frequently aren't. I've got a fiver on it that by all measurable standards the middle class -- if it even still exists in 2020 -- will be worse off than it is today.

Teddy Roosevelt's speeches covered every side of every issue, so you can take from them what you want.

'Tis a bloomin' shame he's not available for service. We need somebody else like him who had the spine to stand up to entrenched interests.

Darryl wrote:While I have made an occasional exception I generally don't post photos on my Pinterest if the guy is presenting as female, sometimes that is simply wearing heels - stiletto most usually.

I'm probably going to go through existing boards and 'cull the herd' a wee bit if I have changed my mind about a photo or included something while in a flurry of adding new photos.

That's generally how I roll when it comes to flickr photo's I "fave", and pinterest photo's I "pin". Very, and I mean VERY rarely do I save a photo of a man who presents with a wig, padding, or other falsies. I have a "Gender Freedom" board on pinterest that I may save some highly femme looks in, however it's easy to tell the person is- if nothing else presenting as androgynous. I also post a lot of pro-transgender pins on the board with a highlight on those who are gender fluid.

There's one person who's a master of femme, yet still maintains just enough masculinity to pull of some very interesting, and if I do say so... awesome looks. It's Alexzander from the House of Alexzander. The guy just looks phenomenal, and while I can't duplicate the exact looks as I don't have his skin tone, body shape, hair, etc (my body is much more weathered and banged up), I still enjoy his style and find it quite inspirational.

And I don't consider him a crossdresser.

Anyway... this is my bag. - and any of the real life shots in there I don't consider them any particular label... I simply consider them FREE.

Every-body is beautiful. I like looks and styles that compliment what the wearer actually is, not really so much into changing and hiding the real body under all the glam. If you're body is making testosterone... sport a 5 O'clock shadow with that lacy dress! Alexzander proves you can pull it off and still look great!

While I dress from head to toe in women's clothes and shoes on my outings, I don't see myself as a crossdresser, rather as a "fashion freestyler". I have no desire to wear wigs, makeup or padded bras, I'm perfectly content to simply wear the clothes as a male, to express myself in my own unique style, and that's what I enjoy most. When I see pictures on flickr and Pinterest of other men who openly wear women's clothes as men, I feel a strong sense of pride, knowing there are others out there share my special passion.

Moonshadow. I agree with your assessment of Alexzander . I've been a fan of his web site for a couple of years now. I wished I could pull off some of his looks. But alas our body types are 180 degrees off.

Alexzander is, wining doubt, an extreme example of fashion freedom without 100% cross-dressing.

I find myself vacillating between live and hate for this guy but he's never boring.

And if he can go about his entire life dressed like that, we can certainly chance a quick trip to the gas station.

JeffB1959 wrote: When I see pictures on flickr and Pinterest of other men who openly wear women's clothes as men, I feel a strong sense of pride, knowing there are others out there share my special passion.

AGREED!

Caultron wrote:Alexzander is, without a doubt, an extreme example of fashion freedom without 100% cross-dressing.

I find myself vacillating between love and hate for this guy but he's never boring.

And if he can go about his entire life dressed like that, we can certainly chance a quick trip to the gas station.

I have a feeling someone typed this on his phone. (I hope you don't mind, I took the liberty of making a few corrections in italics in the quote, as I assume that was what was meant....)

He's had a few looks that didn't suit him, but what can I say, all in all, he rocks it- generally speaking. And I believe I read that he lives in Atlanta Georgia. I tip my hat to him. If he can pull that off in the deep south, then what are we whining about??

moonshadow wrote:

Caultron wrote:Alexzander is, without a doubt, an extreme example of fashion freedom without 100% cross-dressing.

I find myself vacillating between love and hate for this guy but he's never boring.

And if he can go about his entire life dressed like that, we can certainly chance a quick trip to the gas station.

I have a feeling someone typed this on his phone....

iPad.

I'm not an expert about gender, but I understand that there is far more variation than one would assume or guess. But society insists that there is, or should be, a strict binary.

And of course, the gender binary doesn't apply to skirtonians, even if it is assumed that it should.

Grok wrote:I'm not an expert about gender, but I understand that there is far more variation than one would assume or guess. But society insists that there is, or should be, a strict binary.

And of course, the gender binary doesn't apply to skirtonians, even if it is assumed that it should.

Some, parts of society insist on that, but that part is getting smaller, and starting to adapt, or at least learning to shut up and deal with it.

As an (retired) engineer I have a simple view: if you can't measure it, you can't define it. Everything else is an opinion. I like black and white situations. And what is the good and the bad of an opinion? You can agree or disagree on it. And you can be in that state till the end of time.
I'm originally from Holland and we have a saying overthere. If you have 12 persons together you will have 13 religions.
My own view is that if you are wearing clothes (and other attributes) of the other gender with the intention to look like the other gender, you are crossdressing.
In the mean time I'm enjoying the freedom of skirts (and kilts now it is getting colder) and wear this more and more in the open.

I started this thread almost a year ago, and in that length of time I have learned quite a bit about gender issues, crossdressing, etc...

And my end of day conclusion as far as I'm concerned is... it doesn't matter.

One interesting thing, with the increasing awareness of transgender issues, I do occasionally get asked about my "gender", a lady once thanked me for "being who I am" and recalled her granddaughter who is transitioning. I've read many articles for and against all of the issues we have shared on this site. I read a particularly nasty one this morning, however it might actually fit in here as most, if not all of us (active members) DO identify as men. Despite my very feminine dress, I do still identify as a man.

In this increasing atmosphere of questions, transgender issues, political correctness, etc I often find myself trying to come up with a simple explanation of why I am what I am and do what I do. Something that can be explained it simple terms, and in quick fashion for those who are pressed for time.

"Biologically speaking, my sex is male, and that will never change. My gender is fluid, which is to say that it is free. Free from the social constructs that dictate what I am allowed and not allowed to do and wear based on what's between my legs.... it's a simple as that. And THAT is gender freedom."

Such a simple statement that actually speaks volumes about me. I ought to print it on a little card and just hand it to people when they ask so they can go home and dissect it.

Many of us here identify only as male. We just like skirts for comfort. If I am totally honest with you all and with myself, I am aware that wearing a nice long skirt makes me feel calm, gentle, more thoughtful and less presuured. IF these feelings are more stereotypically associated with femininity, then I guess I can say that wearing a skirt makes me feel more feminine even though I am an overweight, bald headed man. I prefer, however, to evade this type of gender identification and believe that donning a skirt simply makes me feel more ME. Even that is only true when in an appropriate context. Wearing a skirt for work, for example, would make me feel acutely embarrassed and would be totally inappropriate whereas wearing a skirt socially among friends, on holiday away from home, or when relaxing at home is a positive experience. I think I have confused myself somewhat here with this rambling train of thought. I am not transgender and I do not identify as transvestite I am a heterosexual male, perfectly happy with that designation but able to explore and exhibit the gentler side of my nature through the clothing I choose to wear some of the time. - Call it crossdressing if you will.

Derek

Woman's clothes are called such because that is how they are marked when you go to the store. When you buy something its yours. be it a house a car or a fork. it becomes a man's house car or fork. When you buy a skirt and wear it it becomes a man's skirt period. Ok skirts and their accessories tend to be finer and more refined than normal men's clothing. Just because you put together an outfit that because of the flow of things ends up a little softer does not make you a transvestite or cross dresser. Bulky socks and shoes just don't go with some skirts. I have worn outfits with pantyhose and pumps. I may be trying to obtain a refined and somewhat delicate look but I am not trying to look like a woman. If I started with wigs makeup and other things and tried to give the impression that I was a woman than I would be cross dressing.