Sightings "in the wild"

[crfriend]

You seem to make a couple of stark assumptions here LiuBang!

Oh, just a few!

Firstly, I think a lot of users of this forum would agree that a maxi-skirt is not necessarily a feminine garment and the assumption that the person you saw is trans could well be unfounded.

A skirt is just a piece (or several pieces of and sewn together) cloth used for adornment, warmth, and modesty, Nothing more and nothing less.

Determination of "gender" (whatever that is this week -- it keeps changing) is better determined by observing behaviour. Sure, there are a whole lot more butch women around than feminine-leaning men (this causes problems, too, in the modern world). This skews things pretty badly, and is likely responsible for a goodly chunk of the problems we have today with sorting the mess out.

To Derek's point, I wear a lot of long skirts, especially in the winter and for "dressier" occasions. I also wear short ones. I'm also entirely male, and am finding it difficult to find a partner now because I'm insufficiently homosexual to be attracted to most modern "women" (who are women in name only). Do not judge a book via a one-time glance at the cover. "Read' a few pages. You might find it instructive.

[LiuBang]

You seem to make a couple of stark assumptions here LiuBang! Firstly, I think a lot of users of this forum would agree that a maxi-skirt is not necessarily a feminine garment and the assumption that the person you saw is trans could well be unfounded. I am a biological, heterosexual male and I wear maxi-skirts often.
regards,
Derek

Of course maxi-skirts aren't necessarily feminine. But the only other time I've seen a man in a maxiskirt, it turned out to be a trans woman. That was my colleague in Iowa. He had stubble, deep voice, no cosmetics, muscular build, unisex T-shirt, and used the men's restroom. Only "feminine" thing was his maxiskirts--and it was a plain, dark green/dark blue/black maxiskirt at that. I geuinely thought I might have met a straight man in a skirt, until my colleagues referred to him exclusively with feminine pronouns.

[Modoc]

Of course maxi-skirts aren't necessarily feminine. But the only other time I've seen a man in a maxiskirt, it turned out to be a trans woman. That was my colleague in Iowa. He had stubble, deep voice, no cosmetics, muscular build, unisex T-shirt, and used the men's restroom. Only "feminine" thing was his maxiskirts--and it was a plain, dark green/dark blue/black maxiskirt at that. I geuinely thought I might have met a straight man in a skirt, until my colleagues referred to him exclusively with feminine pronouns.

LiuBang you seem determined, here and in other posts, to declare that all men wearing skirts are trans. Based on 1 previous encounter, you have decided that any man wearing a maxiskirt is trans, whether he looks feminine or not. There is really no need to differentiate if you see a man in skirt, then you have seen a man in a skirt, the reason he wears one really doesn't matter to the observer.

[jamie001]

I geuinely thought I might have met a straight man in a skirt, until my colleagues referred to him exclusively with feminine pronouns.

You still may have met a straight man in a skirt. Pronouns or what a person is wearing does not determine if they are straight or gay. The person you men may have been a biological male that is married or in a relationship with a biological female. If so, then the person that you met is straight. Hopefully that makes sense to you.

Regards,

Jamie

[Uncle Al]

LiuBang you seem determined, here and in other posts, to declare that all men wearing skirts are trans. Based on 1 previous encounter, you have decided that any man wearing a maxi-skirt is trans, whether he looks feminine or not.

You can't judge a book(all men) by its cover so how can only 1 'source'
be used to base your thoughts towards all men

There is really no need to differentiate if you see a man in skirt, then you have seen a man in a skirt

True

the reason he wears one really doesn't matter to the observer.

Also quite true.

Uncle Al

[LiuBang]

You still may have met a straight man in a skirt. Pronouns or what a person is wearing does not determine if they are straight or gay. The person you men may have been a biological male that is married or in a relationship with a biological female. If so, then the person that you met is straight. Hopefully that makes sense to you.

Regards,

Jamie

In common parlance, "straight" means non-LGBTQ. My colleague was biologically male but identified as female, which makes him transgender. That makes him not straight. I know technically you can be straight and trans, but in common parlance, straight means cis-hetero, which my colleague was not. Therefore he was not a straight man in a skirt.

[LiuBang]

LiuBang you seem determined, here and in other posts, to declare that all men wearing skirts are trans. Based on 1 previous encounter, you have decided that any man wearing a maxiskirt is trans, whether he looks feminine or not.

I did not say that the guy in a skirt I saw at Costco was necessarily trans, I simply said he likely was trans, non-binary, etc. Because the reality is that there is so much stigma against cis-hetero men in skirts even in urban America that if you see a man in a skirt, chances are he is trans, non-binary, queer, etc. Of course he could be a cis-hetero man in a skirt, but the chances are slim.

[crfriend]

In common parlance, "straight" means non-LGBTQ. My colleague was biologically male but identified as female, which makes him transgender. That makes him not straight.

So what, precisely, is "he"? A MTF lesbian? A MTF homosexual? Sex is determined by chromosomes and genetics, not preference. This must make the lives of the trans-* crowd rather "interesting" (if one bothers to care). I'm old school. I'd rather not know, nor is it really any of my business.

But lumping the majority of guys who are "straight" into the SD Spectrum because they might wear skirts is patently wrong, offensive, and slanderous. Don't.

[LiuBang]

So what, precisely, is "he"? A MTF lesbian? A MTF homosexual? Sex is determined by chromosomes and genetics, not preference. This must make the lives of the trans-* crowd rather "interesting" (if one bothers to care). I'm old school. I'd rather not know, nor is it really any of my business.

But lumping the majority of guys who are "straight" into the SD Spectrum because they might wear skirts is patently wrong, offensive, and slanderous. Don't.

My colleague was biologically a man, sex was male. But he was married to a woman. Therefore a MTF lesbian.

The skirt-wearing guy I saw at Costco? I don't know. But I have zero desire to lump the majority of straight skirt-wearing guys into the SD spectrum. I am simply saying that society so strongly lumps straight, skirt-wearing guys into the SD spectrum, that it makes straight men who would otherwise love to wear skirts really reluctant to wear skirts in public, because they don't want to mistaken as trans. And because of this reluctance, most of the men in skirts you are left with is biological males on the SD spectrum. Of course I cannot say with 100% certainty that the man in a skirt at Costco was trans. I am simply saying he is most likely trans.

[Ozdelights]

[. Of course I cannot say with 100% certainty that the man in a skirt at Costco was trans. I am simply saying he is most likely trans.

And this is what we need to fight against. Do not make assumption or judgement of someone based on what they choose to wear.
Barry

[Coder]

A person (clearly a
biological male). Broad shouldered, tall, flat chested, some facial hair. No cosmetics. Grey hair in a ponytail. Unisex T shirt, unisex flip flops, etc. Only thing "feminine" was he was wearing a plain, rather discrete, maxiskirt.

Most likely he's trans and isn't a straight cis-guy though. I mean this is literally the first time I've seen a clearly biologically male person wear a woman's skirt in Southern California after years and years of living here.

You seem to make a couple of stark assumptions here LiuBang! Firstly, I think a lot of users of this forum would agree that a maxi-skirt is not necessarily a feminine garment and the assumption that the person you saw is trans could well be unfounded. I am a biological, heterosexual male and I wear maxi-skirts often.
regards,
Derek

Gotta agree with Derek. I really think you are worrying about things that just aren't important, and possibly misidentifying people.

[Myopic Bookworm]

I wear a maxi skirt from time to time. I have my hair in a ponytail. I may occasionally be misgendered from a casual glance, but I do not really look female. I don't identify as straight, but I certainly don't identify as "trans" if you mean transsexual. (Arguably my freestyle fashion is "non-binary" and "transgender", since it contravenes the gender stereotype rules; but following the widespread misuse of "gender" to mean" sex", the word "transgender" has been co-opted to mean "transsexual", so I do not identify with it.)

I would be surprised if a MTF transsexual person was not fairly scrupulous in removal of facial hair. Other "gender-benders" such as drag artists may revel in the disjunction of hyper-feminine clothing and facial hair (a la Conchita Wurst), but they are not "trans".

[6ft3Aussie]

The other day I was out the front here and across the road walked a group of young people, probably about 16 to 19 I'd say from a distance, two girls and two guys, one of them, definitely a guy with whispy facial hair and plenty of shoulder length frizzy hair was wearing a long, almost ankle length denim skirt. I don't see too many boys of men around here, but I've definitely seen a few and I'd say that most of them would be aged in the probably 16 to 25 age range, and they seem to all be treated by everyone else quite normally and their friends don't bat an eyelid.
I've seen a few groups of young people where one of the guys is wearing a skirt of some type.

[skirted84]

I love how facial hair is becoming the definition of trans vs man in a skirt. I rarely have visible facial hair and am still 100% a man and most still know this. Even in a skirt I'm greeted as sir/this gentleman etc.

[LiuBang]

And this is what we need to fight against. Do not make assumption or judgement of someone based on what they choose to wear.
Barry

100%. But the only way to fight against this is for more cis-hetero men to wear skirts. Then whenever someone says "excuse me ma'am" or asks "what's your pronouns", these men need to say, "I'm a guy" or "I'm not LGBTQ, I'm just a straight guy who like skirts."

If Western cis-hetero men continue to nearly universally shun skirts, then the vast majority of biological men in skirts will remain trans-women. Then we shouldn't be surprised when society (wrongly) generalizes men in skirts as simply being "trans."