Dr Who

[DrFishnets]

I thought I’d resurrect this thread as I came across an interesting article about the reasons David Tennant didn’t wear Jodie Whittaker’s Dr Who outfit once regenerated as Russell T Davies was concerned that David Tennant wearing the opposite genders clothes would cause ridicule with national newspapers so it was decided that David Tennant would wear his own male Dr Who outfit.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ente ... 22202.html

[Coder]

Hrmmmm - maybe he has a point, but I think it could have been done with respect - I didn’t see the episode, but her outfit isn’t that fem. If he had regenerated and never acted weird or said anything about the outfit, and just gone about his business? I get that the shirt is tight and a boatneck… which could obviously look a bit awkward on someone we are used to seeing.

But at the end of the day this just cements the idea that men/men’s clothes = desirable, women/women’s clothes = inferior. Or am I reading too much into this? It certainly cements the notion that men have a very narrow box of clothes to choose from.

[Barleymower]

I think it cements the idea that women's clothes are off limits, if anything.
Women know they are not inferior. They know there are things men are better at. They know they don't need to do it themselves. They can get a man to do it.
How is that inferior?

[rode_kater]

Davies also said that, should the still of Tennant in Whittaker’s clothes have leaked, “I guarantee you it's the only photograph some of the papers would print for the rest of time.”

He continued: “If they can play with gender in a sarcastic or critical way, they will. We could have the Doctor dressed as a knight, or dressed as God, or dressed as William Hartnell, and the only photo they'd print would be of David in what they considered to be women's clothes. Then it becomes weaponised – as a mockery of feminire traits, a mockery of drag, of that culture. So that was never going to happen.

Depressingly, I don't think he's wrong.

[Barleymower]

He is wrong and he knows it.
It's not a mockery of drag. If David T went up on stage in Whittaker's clothes, nobody is going to think he's a drag artist. Drag is caberet.
No women is going to think it's a mockery of women. They are going to laugh just as hard as anyone else.

If anything a man in female clothing is trying elevate himself and that can't happen. Men have to know their place. Just because a horse can pull harder than any man does make the horse in charge.

All the imagery of kings, knights, wrestlers, boxers, football players is just that an image. As soon as a man steps out of line in real life he finds himself locked up.

It's the best kept open secret there is. Men in charge? It's laughable.

[Coder]

He is wrong and he knows it.
It's not a mockery of drag. If David T went up on stage in Whittaker's clothes, nobody is going to think he's a drag artist. Drag is caberet.

Agreed! Though I'm sure the headlines would be "Dr Who in Drag" or "David Tennant in Drag" and I'm pretty sure Tennant wouldn't want that headline saddled on his neck.

No women is going to think it's a mockery of women. They are going to laugh just as hard as anyone else.

I know Dr. Who has a comedic element - I mean - heck - the entire show is (sort) of a spoof on serious sci-fi. But, do you really think this would have been played for laughs or could it have been done seriously/subtly?

I suppose this could also come down to Tennant's own personal thoughts on the matter - and it takes a long time to come around to a more open perspective.

[DrFishnets]

I’m really surprised with Russell T Davies’ decision considering he is a big supporter of LGBTQ. I too myself didn’t think Jodie’s outfit was extremely feminine and hasn’t David Tennant dressed as a woman before when he was on an episode of Rab C Nesbit and a Channel 4 quiz show where he dressed as a female Dr Who companion. I think David Tennant would of looked good in Jodie Whittaker’s outfit.

[Barleymower]

I know Dr. Who has a comedic element - I mean - heck - the entire show is (sort) of a spoof on serious sci-fi. But, do you really think this would have been played for laughs or could it have been done seriously/subtly?

I suppose this could also come down to Tennant's own personal thoughts on the matter - and it takes a long time to come around to a more open perspective.

I also know Dr Who has a comedic element. Back in my early days of Dr Who, Jon Pertwee and then Tom Baker I did not see the Dr as funny. I saw him as having an answer to every question. Someone who knows the answer to everything is truly formidable. Had the Dr regenerated into Whittaker's clothes he would simply have changed.

The question in my mind has nothing to do with the basis of the show. It had everything to do with attitudes to men and specifically men that wear women's clothes.

[crfriend]

The question in my mind has nothing to do with the basis of the show. It had everything to do with attitudes to men and specifically men that wear women's clothes.

Right there we see the dragon we're trying to slay. Who else sees it?

[Coder]

The question in my mind has nothing to do with the basis of the show. It had everything to do with attitudes to men and specifically men that wear women's clothes.

Right there we see the dragon we're trying to slay. Who else sees it?

I think we all see it (hopefully). I'm simply wondering why they didn't try to slay it with a small but hopefully profound statement - by just playing it cool.

[Barleymower]

The question in my mind has nothing to do with the basis of the show. It had everything to do with attitudes to men and specifically men that wear women's clothes.

Right there we see the dragon we're trying to slay. Who else sees it?

I think we all see it (hopefully). I'm simply wondering why they didn't try to slay it with a small but hopefully profound statement - by just playing it cool.

If men are big and powerful, rough, toxic masculine, doing as they please. With a "if I want it, I take it attitude"; then men would be wearing what they want and not sitting here fretting about what anyone says.

[timemeddler]

Jamie McCrimmon, present for most of the 2nd doctor(at least the episodes that are left). Has any tv series had someone in a kilt anywhere near as long?

[Uncle Al]

The question in my mind has nothing to do with the basis of the show. It had everything
to do with attitudes to men, and specifically men that wear "Women's" clothes.

Your statement is what's holding men back, strengthening the constructed concept of Men's Clothes versus Women's Clothes.

Clothes are not Men's or Women's clothes

Clothing is what humans(men and women) use to cover themselves for modesty and protection from the elements.
DESIGNS were developed to provide functionality, based on body shape. Nothing more, nothing less.

Society must get over the idea that men do not wear women's clothes Men wear clothes, period

The fact that wearing clothes is for functionality. Underwear was designed to protect the outer
clothing from 'mishaps'. The designers had to consider the male/female anatomy. Soon they were
incorporating these 'concepts' when designing outerwear. For females, the designers adjusted shirts
to accept the 'fuller' female chest than in a straight shirt for men.

( An old saying is, "When riding horses, men "should" be the ones riding side-saddle, not women". )

Again, men do not wear women's clothes MEN WEAR CLOTHES, PERIOD :!

Uncle Al

[Barleymower]

The question in my mind has nothing to do with the basis of the show. It had everything
to do with attitudes to men, and specifically men that wear "Women's" clothes.

Your statement is what's holding men back, strengthening the constructed concept of Men's Clothes versus Women's Clothes.

Clothes are not Men's or Women's clothes

Clothing is what humans(men and women) use to cover themselves for modesty and protection from the elements.
DESIGNS were developed to provide functionality, based on body shape. Nothing more, nothing less.

Society must get over the idea that men do not wear women's clothes Men wear clothes, period

The fact that wearing clothes is for functionality. Underwear was designed to protect the outer
clothing from 'mishaps'. The designers had to consider the male/female anatomy. Soon they were
incorporating these 'concepts' when designing outerwear. For females, the designers adjusted shirts
to accept the 'fuller' female chest than in a straight shirt for men.

( An old saying is, "When riding horses, men "should" be the ones riding side-saddle, not women". )

Again, men do not wear women's clothes MEN WEAR CLOTHES, PERIOD :!

Uncle Al

Thank you for the lesson in how to suck eggs Uncle Al. Don't you think I know that?

Shouting or using capitals is unproductive and alienates those who are on your.side.

[Mouse]

If men are big and powerful, rough, toxic masculine, doing as they please. With a "if I want it, I take it attitude"; then men would be wearing what they want and not sitting here fretting about what anyone says.

BM, I like this post. I am not saying I identify with any of the first part, but the last part I am doing my best to live to the max.