Upskirting - Should the gender of the skirt wearer matter?

[shadowfax]

An update.
Upskirting is highly likely to become a criminal offence in England and Wales soon, now that the prime minister has given her support.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... roduce-ban
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/ju ... rs-in-jail

[Charlie]

This was widely reported on the BBC news as a bill to make photographing up women's skirts an offence (as it should be).
Nothing was said about men's skirts or kilts which annoyed me, so I went to the horses mouth (government website) to find the actual wording of the bill. Fortunately, the government is a bit more switched on than the BBC news editors (who don't, or won't, recognise that some men also wear skirts), and the bill is not gender-specific. Actually its an amendment to an existing voyeurism law.

I found the bill here:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... /18174.pdf

To paraphrase:
A person (“A”) commits an offence if A —
(a) without another person (“B”) consenting, and
(b) without any reasonable belief that B consents, operates equipment beneath B’s clothing with the intention of enabling A or another person (“C”), to observe B’s private parts [the bill is much more specific, but this is a family show].
Charlie

[shadowfax]

This was widely reported on the BBC news as a bill to make photographing up women's skirts an offence (as it should be).
Nothing was said about men's skirts or kilts which annoyed me, so I went to the horses mouth (government website) to find the actual wording of the bill. Fortunately, the government is a bit more switched on than the BBC news editors (who don't, or won't, recognise that some men also wear skirts), and the bill is not gender-specific. Actually its an amendment to an existing voyeurism law.

Emily Maitlis on BBC Newsnight got it right and said "person's". Not women's.
BBC iPlayer link (29:17)

[FranTastic444]

When I have worn kilts on nights out in town....

Hi Ray. Just as a matter of interest, have you ever worn skirts or kilts in the West Midlands or just when you are on your hols / travels? I don't think it is something that I could ever do in Walsall, Cannock, Dudley, Brum etc. - just too much chance of a negative reaction.

[Sinned]

FT444, my son lives in Solihull and I have worn a skirt out and about without any problems. We went to a local pub to watch an England football match as I recall. No adverse reactions. But then you won't know until you try it. There's nothing to fear but fear itself.

[oldsalt1]

There should be no difference in the rules . The problem is that most of these laws were written in a different. time .I would think that as they are rewritten the laws will treat both sexes eaqually

I think that anyone who tries to upskirt is a sick individual. Now excuse me I have a pair of shoes that I have to polish the tips

[Ray]

FT444 - frequently. No problems at all.

Most recent one was in Reading (okay, not West Mids) when I wore my green non tartan kilt suit to a work conference. My 200 colleagues loved it! More than one asked me, jokingly - “why are you wearing a skirt?” My three word response? “ Because I can!”

Birmingham is pretty civilised. Kilts/skirts are fine.

[rivegauche]

It is already illegal in Scotland under the Sexual Offences Act 2009. It uses the word "person".

[FranTastic444]

"Ban also protects men in kilts" -

[moonshadow]

This was widely reported on the BBC news as a bill to make photographing up women's skirts an offence (as it should be).
Nothing was said about men's skirts or kilts which annoyed me, so I went to the horses mouth (government website) to find the actual wording of the bill. Fortunately, the government is a bit more switched on than the BBC news editors (who don't, or won't, recognise that some men also wear skirts), and the bill is not gender-specific. Actually its an amendment to an existing voyeurism law.

I found the bill here:
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/b ... /18174.pdf

To paraphrase:
A person (“A”) commits an offence if A —
(a) without another person (“B”) consenting, and
(b) without any reasonable belief that B consents, operates equipment beneath B’s clothing with the intention of enabling A or another person (“C”), to observe B’s private parts [the bill is much more specific, but this is a family show].
Charlie

That's the problem with broadcast news....

Wonder how many wars were waged or other lives lost over a minor omission in a soundbite??

[Big and Bashful]

When I have worn kilts on nights out in town....

Hi Ray. Just as a matter of interest, have you ever worn skirts or kilts in the West Midlands or just when you are on your hols / travels? I don't think it is something that I could ever do in Walsall, Cannock, Dudley, Brum etc. - just too much chance of a negative reaction.

I have worn a kilt several times on nights out in Sheffield and also for most of a week on one canal trip on the Llangollen canal. No problems, hardly any questions other than what tartan I wore. Once in Sheffield someone lifted the back of the kilt as I was walking through town, they were rather more surprised than I was!

[shadowfax]

The upskirting bill was discussed in committee on the 2nd of July.
Link to official Hansard report on the committee/meeting
Following that it has moved on and the Public Bill Committee will next meet on Tuesday 10 July 2018 to take written and oral evidence for discussion.
https://www.parliament.uk/business/news ... -no2-bill/
The Public Bill Committee must conclude by Thursday 12 July 2018.

[Charlie]

This came up again in the BBC news today. They still touted this as an offence to photograph up a woman's skirt (not a person's skirt which it says in the original bill), with the addition of an amendment to make misogyny a hate crime. No mention of misandry (hatred of men). They interviewed a man who thought that, in the interests of equality, hatred of men should also be a hate crime. Must say I agree with him. Hopefully the politicians are more clued up than the BBC news room.
Charlie

[moonshadow]

1984

Enter the thought police.

[moonshadow]

Better speak your mind now. Won't be long they'll be shutting this site down for hate crimes.