Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
oldsalt1, I am 60 years old. I doubt that I will live to see true mainstream acceptance. At best, a meer tolerance for some eccentrics in unorthodox clothing.
I feel lucky that I lived to see a modest growth in kilting.
What I do hope to see is growth in groups such as skirt cafe.
I feel lucky that I lived to see a modest growth in kilting.
What I do hope to see is growth in groups such as skirt cafe.
- oldsalt1
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Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
Unfortunately you may be right about mainstream acceptance . But I expect a little more than meer tolerance.
It may be a weak example but as I mentioned look at men and ear rings. I think that ten years ago a man wearing an ear ring was just as taboo as skirts.
Look at companies like 511 tactical their main market is first responders this is a male oriented supplier and its 511 tactical kilt is a big seller. I hinted for my son to buy me one for Christmas but I thing it was a little over his budget.
There have been a couple of other small companies at least offering unisex skirts. its just going to take one major to push the issue.
hey I may be dreaming but why not
It may be a weak example but as I mentioned look at men and ear rings. I think that ten years ago a man wearing an ear ring was just as taboo as skirts.
Look at companies like 511 tactical their main market is first responders this is a male oriented supplier and its 511 tactical kilt is a big seller. I hinted for my son to buy me one for Christmas but I thing it was a little over his budget.
There have been a couple of other small companies at least offering unisex skirts. its just going to take one major to push the issue.
hey I may be dreaming but why not
Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
I would like to see some sort of progress, but this may be a niche thing. (As is kilting, which at least had the advantage of already existing).
Response to oldsalt1
Instead of MIS going mainstream, perhaps we will see another dynamic.
Imagine a particular skirt as a niche thing.
This is a quote from the book Glock by Paul M. Barrett. Barrett quoted an employee who does PR....
'" ' Glock owners have a kind of brand loyalty that's incredible, because they were pariahs in a way. You know, you own 'the hideous plastic gun'....'"
A superior design was disdained as a piece of junk, because it was ugly and used plastic, and everybody knows that semiautomatics aren't as reliable as revolvers.
The book even has a chapter about Glock Culture and fans of the gun.
In the context of clothing, some of the kilting web sites have a similar feel, with kilting almost a subculture.
Imagine a particular skirt as a niche thing.
This is a quote from the book Glock by Paul M. Barrett. Barrett quoted an employee who does PR....
'" ' Glock owners have a kind of brand loyalty that's incredible, because they were pariahs in a way. You know, you own 'the hideous plastic gun'....'"
A superior design was disdained as a piece of junk, because it was ugly and used plastic, and everybody knows that semiautomatics aren't as reliable as revolvers.
The book even has a chapter about Glock Culture and fans of the gun.
In the context of clothing, some of the kilting web sites have a similar feel, with kilting almost a subculture.
Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
oldsalt1, I would refer you to the Wikipedia article for Bloomers (clothing). This may give a hint of the time scale for MIS to truly go mainstream.
On the order of a century.
On the order of a century.
- oldsalt1
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Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
can't find article do you mean boomer as opposed to blommers
Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
"Bloomers"...B...l...o...o...m...e...r...s Referring to the clothing worn by early Feminists.
Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
Stevie D
(Sheffield, South Yorkshire)
(Sheffield, South Yorkshire)
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Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
Hi Grok,
I think you're missing a couple things in making your comparison. First off, there's the acceleration in the rate of change in all arenas.
Secondly, in the case of bloomers, it was a matter of a patriarchy asserting its authority and protecting its turf. Before they were done, it was ILLEGAL for women to wear pants in public in every state. By the turn of he century activists neutralized that legal constraint. In our case, it is a matter of men acknowledging the equality women have achieved and learning to enjoy the freedom to choose.
I think you're missing a couple things in making your comparison. First off, there's the acceleration in the rate of change in all arenas.
Secondly, in the case of bloomers, it was a matter of a patriarchy asserting its authority and protecting its turf. Before they were done, it was ILLEGAL for women to wear pants in public in every state. By the turn of he century activists neutralized that legal constraint. In our case, it is a matter of men acknowledging the equality women have achieved and learning to enjoy the freedom to choose.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer
Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
Yes, unfortunately, because of this sort of attitude I do believe that it will be at least a century for MIS to be accepted as part of the mainstream. On this time scale the dinosaurs with outdated ideas will finally reach old age and die.moonshadow wrote:I think what's at issue here is in the older days when women donned a pair of trousers in pop culture it was celebrated as an advancement for women in general where as when men don a skirt in pop culture it's considered a joke, degrading, crazy, a gag, etc.
Perhaps there is one thing I should clarify, how I see the near term.....
I am fairly optimistic-much more optimistic-about a network of iconoclasts doing their own thing, than converting the trousered masses. The masses who must follow the herd.
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Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
Pdxfashionpioneer wrote: than converting the trousered masses
Good God man! Why in heavens name would we want to do that?! It'd take away half the fun!
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer
Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
- oldsalt1
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Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
In truth I don't want everybody wearing skirts. To me a part of wearing a skirt is my rebellion against a lifetime of doing whats expected. If everybody wore skirts it would take that away.Grok wrote:oldsalt1, I am 60 years old. I doubt that I will live to see true mainstream acceptance. At best, a meer tolerance for some eccentrics in unorthodox clothing
What I do hope to see is growth in groups such as skirt cafe.
But at the same time I don't want to be considered an eccentric wearing unorthodox clothing.
I am trying to find an example of a level of acceptance that I would like to reach but I can't think of anything.
Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
Even if converting the masses was the goal, I do think it would take at least a century for MIS to be accepted as mainstream.
But while this topic has occasionally come up, for me it is just an intellectual exercise.
I would be pleased with a sort of fraternity, or a loose network, of guys who have had a long standing interest in skirts. (As members tend to be)
But while this topic has occasionally come up, for me it is just an intellectual exercise.
I would be pleased with a sort of fraternity, or a loose network, of guys who have had a long standing interest in skirts. (As members tend to be)
Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
I have to wonder how members would vote if there was a poll:
"Which would you prefer?"
"1. That men in general embrace skirts, making it mainstream fashion"
"2. That MIS remain a minority interest, I prefer to be nonconformist"
Personally, I would settle for option 2.
"Which would you prefer?"
"1. That men in general embrace skirts, making it mainstream fashion"
"2. That MIS remain a minority interest, I prefer to be nonconformist"
Personally, I would settle for option 2.
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Re: Mary Tyler Moore and her pants.
Grok,
I'd go mainstream.
I blazed the trail for a bit of it.
Are we not all about choice and freedom of that?
Steve.
I'd go mainstream.
I blazed the trail for a bit of it.
Are we not all about choice and freedom of that?
Steve.