A new look with socks and pantyhose

[Peter v]

jamie001 wrote:
One other thing, if you are going to exposes your toes in sandals, it is best to shave any hair. Hairy feet and sandals are not a good look.

According to who exactly? According to Jamie001? Or some fashion maven Jamie is in love with?
I wear socks all the time now because I have P.A.D. in my feet (poor circulation) and my feet are cold all the time. So I wear socks for warmth. I didn't most of my life tho, I have hairy feet, I see nothing wrong with that. I'm a man, not a woman wannabe. I like to wear skirts as a man. I'm not into makeup, high heels, shaved legs and armpits, or any other of the common to women affectations. Just 'cause someone isn't wearing a wig or fake boobs doesn't mean he's not leaning well over into the Crossdresser side. Crossdressers are not the same as transvestites, trannys want to go by girls names as well. CD's at the start just wonder what it's like to wear the "forbidden" fruit. I used to live in Hollywood Florida, a hotbed of Tranny and Drag Queen activity. I was a child at that time, around 12, so I don't know if it still is. I was still at the age of stealing skirts off neighbor's clotheslines...In THOSE days, all the females wore skirts and dresses so it was easy to find one at night. A woman in trousers would be ran out of town as a "dyke". I never did and still don't understand why "dyke" means what it does. The pronounciation "dyke" sounds like "dike" which is a water dam. I don't get it.

One thing I definitely do not agree with is the hairy leg argument. Men shave their faces, if they have hair growth there, and they may not shave with the result a beard. Nobody chooses to have a beard, they choose not to shave. The beard comes naturally. There are men who have a heavy hair growth, and others who are practically bald, over their whole body. So if a man would be bald, have no hair on his legs, and wear a skirt, would he be cross dressing or the like? Definitely NO. Just as we men shave or don't shave our faces, the rest of our body is nothing different. When dressing anything other than the "manly image" especially with any finer footwear and certainly with the finer, more femme skirts, I think that hairy legs look just TERRIBLE, whether you are a man or a woman. It has to do with how it looks, not with wanting to be femme, or look like a woman. I prefer to see a smooth hairless body than an ape look alike anyday.

BUT because it is so much work to shave, or whatever to get all the unwanted hair gotten rid of, the most easy way out is to just let it be, let it grow. And when men do that, it does have an effect on the clothing you wear with that. Wearing a dress with a low cut back and showing a hairy back like king kong's is definitely not done. That is possibly one of the reasons that some men although they feel for the finer clothing, they opt for "the manly way of dressing" as that goes well with a hairy body. It is practical, easy but you don't get to wear great clothing!!!!

[Pythos]

amen peter V.

[Milfmog]

Sorry Peter, but I don't think I agree with anything you wrote in your last post!

You don't like the look of hairy legs with skirts, OK, that's how you feel but it does not make it a bad look, just one you don't like. You don't like hairy backs and have previously commented on hairy arms. You are free to like or dislike whatever you choose, but as soon as you say it is a bad look you have fallen into the trap of making (or perpetuating) fashion rules; so much for freedom.

It's been said before, and will undoubtedly be said again, that the best way to advocate men in skirts is to get out there and be seen wearing your own fashion choices, not just towing the fashionista's line. The reason is that people are not used to men in skirts and find the look odd but with time and exposure to the look it will become familiar. I suspect the same is true about body hair, it's just fashion and conditioning; nothing more. At present body hair is out of fashion, but a few years ago hairy chests were the norm for "manly men" and only an effeminate man would ever consider shaving his chest. A few years before that it was long hair on men that looked girly. My point? Hair, like clothing choices, is subject to the whims of fashion, it just seems to me that you have not recognised that this can be applied to body hair as well as hair on top of the head or on the face.

Sorry, rant over I'll go back to letting my beard (grown by deliberate choice!!!) get longer.

Have fun,


Ian.

[Ray]

Ian,

I'm not quite sure (I could be wrong) that you picked up on certain aspects of Peter's arguments.

To me, Peter was not saying that hairy legs with skirts were bad per se, but was suggesting that hairy legs with "femme" skirts (or hairy backs with some dresses) was not a good look. Peter did comment that being hairy wasn't a bad choice (indeed, very practical / low maintenance) but that it worked with some clothing and not others.

I agree with your general point that part of this reasoning is that we are not used to certain fashion combinations, and that it is possible for what is currently seen as verboten may be accepted with time. My view is that hairy legs work well with many things which share the relaxed informal style (or chunky/masculine style) of a hairy leg. If you shave your legs etc, then you have a more delineated style - more precise and tidy, as it were. Thus, more precise and tidy clothing will tend to match this better. I'm open to new ideas / interpretations though.

I'll never have hairy legs - I'm just not that hairy - so I have to work with what I have and for me, that means that shaved legs are far cleaner and tidy in look than patchy fur coverage! As I like hosiery, shaved legs are obviously useful (hairy legs under sheer hosiery = BAD!), but that's not the reason I shave.

[Milfmog]

Ray,

I don't think I missed anything in Peters post, curiously I even agree that hairy legs under hosiery is not a look I like and the idea of a hairy back visible in a dress really does not press my buttons. My objection is the (apparent) rule that hairy legs can not be matched with finer fabrics or more delicate styles. I probably would not do it because I don't think I would like the look but I would not want to discourage others who were happy to combine body hair with freedom of choice in their dress sense. The trouble with freedom is that it has to apply to everyone, so if we push for fashion freedom we need to be prepared to allow others the freedom to wear things in ways we don't like, jeans worn below the buttocks being a personal pet hate...

I guess I just dislike being told what I can or can not do. Even at my age it is possible to rebel

Have fun,


Ian.

[crfriend]

I guess I just dislike being told what I can or can not do. Even at my age it is possible to rebel

There it is, in a nutshell. "Please do not tell me what to do, based on your personal opinion. Or even presume to tell me."

We all have our own opinions of what looks good with what, or what forms of "ritual mutilation" (be it shaving, tattooing, or {insert-your-favourite-vice-here}) should be practised so one might "look good"; and they're just that -- our opinions. I happen to have several of my own, some of which have even seen the light of day here at SkirtCafe, but at least I couch them as my opinions; I assiduously try to avoid stating them as truth when, in fact, they are opinion.

This thread has already incurred some "moderator time" because of this disparity; I'd just like to take the time, with my "mod hat" off (it's an uncomfortable contraption, you know -- all those tubes and wires), to implore folks to state opinion as opinion and nothing more. I should also note that my opinion does not necessarily trump yours.

[Departed Member]

I'm not into makeup, high heels, shaved legs and armpits, or any other of the common to women affectations. Just 'cause someone isn't wearing a wig or fake boobs doesn't mean he's not leaning well over into the Crossdresser side. Crossdressers are not the same as transvestites, trannys want to go by girls names as well.

Hearrrr hear, Skip! We have very similar thoughts on this, despite a fair wack of ocean between us, it seems! One of the biggest worries of partners/spouses whose 'other halves' express/show an interest in wearing non-bifurcated clothing is that it might be part of a 'progression' towards "Crossdressing", with all (thanks in no small part to seedy media 'attention') the negativity currently ascribed to it. Please don't anyone bother to tell me, "It shouldn't be like that". I may well agree with you, but it won't change that unfortunate perception!

[Peter v]

It does seem that there are indeed some who nearly even don't accept other's opinions as that, as despite some well accepted and appreciated compliments, seemingly understanding what I was TRYING to say, there is also some interpretation by some members which could be seen as negative or even bigotry. This is no accusation, just an opinion.

"When dressing anything other than the "manly image" especially with any finer footwear and certainly with the finer, more femme skirts, I think that hairy legs look just TERRIBLE, whether you are a man or a woman. It has to do with how it looks, not with wanting to be femme, or look like a woman. I prefer to see a smooth hairless body than an ape look alike anyday."

I would think that it was an OPINION, don't you?

Ps Men are allowed to be men, with the hair they generally do have, but there are also many men do not have much body hair. But I still think that when men start to wear finer clothing, deviating from what many consider "manly" which is at the moment more or less woman's, the finer, dainty, more expressionate women's clothing, then I do think that the (manly) hair doesn't look right there, not for men or women. There is a look that goes with that clothing. I am of course talking about men who are seeking the finer path in clothing, leaning over to cross dressing, as opposed to men who are as manly as they were before, but are now wearing a skirt which could be called manly.

That will not say that if men were to let us ssuggest wear open pumps, that in time there may be an exception made to "cleanliness" in dressing, and it would be accepted that hairy legs would be seen in those shoes, being seen as belonging to the men's clothing. Or as it is known that men have much body hair, being a men's thing, that is accepted as such, with clothing that is also men's. BUT when we men wear women's clothing, dress up femme, ( a finer dress possibility than offered in the men's garderobe ) that clothing requires a certain amount of body "cleanliness". That is the look that goes with those clothes at the moment.

Can Apes wear tutu's? Of course they can and may, if everyone thinks it looks good? That is up to personal opinion.

[sapphire]

Does anyone remember the Natural Women of the 1970s? The ones who did not shave their armpits or legs?

[SkirtedViking]

Here comes the anti freestyler's campaign of some members...For general society we are all not typically dressed no matter with a skirt with the "manly" image or with the not so manly image, so it is better to unite, not to spill some bulsh*t conclusions that just damage men's freedom to express themselves equally with women. How about men who shave their legs and wear the trousers, are they too crossdressers? And women in men's clothing and shoes (or some of them wear man's styled such made for women due to the abolition of the obligatory feminine look for them) , I see them everyday (I live in Central Europe), still many females wear stuff even made for males, are they too crossdressers? Or because they are women and when a deviation of the norm becames mass one, it becomes the norm itself just because many of them look like that, and not a few? I do not care who thinks that I am a crossdresser, for me I ain't, I am equal to the women who choose to wear the man's stuff. Just because there are more women wearing masculine apparel than men like me who do not want to impersonate the other sex but wear whatever they please, doesn't mean that they are more normal than I am. All people are equal How funny it is to fight with narrow mindededness and insecurity of some people into their own masculinity. Male Crossdressers wear wigs, boobs, hips , call themselves jane etc, I wear a beard, muscles and 2 sm hair - that's just some of the difference.

[Pythos]

I don't think Sapphire was being anti freestyler with her comment.

With that skirted Viking, it is nice to hear of another person that thinks along the same lines as myself.

I find it nonesense that women can wear whatever item of clothing they wish (within decency), and not get called crossdresser, yet even now a days, if I wear my leggings as a part of my wardrobe for the day I am a borderline cross dresser. Perhaps someone with bad taste in clothing, cause acording to the fashionazis spandex is bad taste, but I don't think I am a cross dresser for wearing them, especially concidering the only colors I have are black, or black with an side electric blue stripe.

[SkirtedViking]

It is not Sapphire that I mean, look a few posts before hers on the previous page, Pythos.

[Departed Member]

... if I wear my leggings as a part of my wardrobe for the day I am a borderline cross dresser. Perhaps someone with bad taste in clothing, cause acording to the fashionazis spandex is bad taste, but I don't think I am a cross dresser for wearing them, especially concidering the only colors I have are black, or black with an side electric blue stripe.

Why do YOU think you're a "borderline cross dresser", as you put it, Pythos? You're just a bloke wearing blokes' sports-style clothing, as I read it. Most folk, out on the street, wear something similar to go jogging - they're certainly 'gender-free' garments. The only 'issue' some of us would have, is wearing sports clothing in a social context. Nothing to do with the article of clothing, as such. Well, other than the fact that they, because of the clinging nature of the fabric, do tend to 'highlight' ones' gender, which no small number of folk, even in the UK, find unseemly, or even 'offensive'.

[SkirtedViking]

The sooner the term crossdressing disappears for men the better.It is a discriminatory term, it is applied just for males! Even when I wear tops, skirts, heels I do not coinsider myself crossdresser, and between freestylers and female impersonators (transvestites) there is a big difference.

[jamie001]

Thank you SkirtedViking. You hit the nail on the head!! The term crossdressing only applies to men and needs to disappear. I also am not a crossdresser because I don't try to deceive anyone that I am a woman because I am not a woman! Therefore I am not a crossdresser. I am just a man with a strong feminine side that likes heels, nail polish, skirts, women's fragrances, and other items that are typically associated by this screwed-up society with women.

Regards,

Jamie
Fashion Freedom for Men!!

The sooner the term crossdressing disappears for men the better.It is a discriminatory term, it is applied just for males! Even when I wear tops, skirts, heels I do not coinsider myself crossdresser, and between freestylers and female impersonators (transvestites) there is a big difference.