Style

[Dust]

I read a book a while back (suggested somewhere on this forum, I believe) called Dress Codes. Interesting read. It traced a history of primarily menswear, from the finery of the kings of old, to the old money New England prep schools of today.

To sum up, the wealthy and powerful used to just show their wealth by what they wore. They put on the finest fabrics, the sort commoners of the day could not afford. But when the commoners started doing well for themselves, they simply bought those fabrics to look like the nobility. Those in power tried and failed to outlaw (over and over again) the little people wearing the stuff of the nobles. When that didn't work, men slowly moved to an understated sophistication that involved things being just so.* From fabrics and colors (or lack thereof) to fit and finish, if your dress and demeanor weren't perfect, you would be outed as one of the little people. And learning that stuff was near impossible for someone who didn't grow up around it. Which was the entire point. They could spot "new money" a mile away.

Fitting in and wearing the uniform, and more importantly doing it right and making it look like second nature, became the ultimate status symbol. One that no lottery winner is ever going to be able to just go out and buy.

These attitudes remain in force to caring degrees today. But with massive technological advances, there is some change. The Internet allows one to simply look up the (once unwritten) rules, making it harder to tell who grew up with it, and who read up on it. And clothing is more available than ever, with mass produced but widely varying items shipping from around the world in a matter of weeks at most, some available next day. Although, the cheap stuff can still often be spotted easily enough...

New technology has also made a lot of new wealth. Many of these folks simply ignored the rules. They wear T-shirts and jeans to things that used to require a jacket and tie. It's the ultimate flex and a middle finger to the old money crowd.

To those of that older mindset, a guy in a skirt will always be a big "f*** you" in their eyes. But if you can pull it off with enough confidence, it will also say "I don't need your approval." It can look like a total flex that way. But in some ways we need to have that ability to make it look like second nature, if we are going to pull it off and look like we belong there in our own right. Even if it is as a self-made man, charting our own new path...


*Women's fashion, on the other hand, took a different turn. This was enabled by the fact that tailors and seamstresses had separate guilds and were staking out separate turf in men's and women's wear. Fitting clothing to the body was seen as a different skill from draping cloth around the body, and the two groups would not let the other practice their specialty. Women's fashion, rather than focusing on perfect tailoring, tended towards keeping up with trends, and remained more varied. This also required free time, recurring access to those setting the trends, and not a small amount of money, and therefore accomplished a similar result to the subtlety of men's fashion, albeit in a different way.

[Barleymower]

Thanks Dust an information perspective on modes of dress. Commonly held beliefs are mostly fiction.

[robehickman]

I read a book a while back (suggested somewhere on this forum, I believe) called Dress Codes. Interesting read. It traced a history of primarily menswear, from the finery of the kings of old, to the old money New England prep schools of today.

To sum up, the wealthy and powerful used to just show their wealth by what they wore. They put on the finest fabrics, the sort commoners of the day could not afford. But when the commoners started doing well for themselves, they simply bought those fabrics to look like the nobility. Those in power tried and failed to outlaw (over and over again) the little people wearing the stuff of the nobles. When that didn't work, men slowly moved to an understated sophistication that involved things being just so.* From fabrics and colors (or lack thereof) to fit and finish, if your dress and demeanor weren't perfect, you would be outed as one of the little people. And learning that stuff was near impossible for someone who didn't grow up around it. Which was the entire point. They could spot "new money" a mile away.

Fitting in and wearing the uniform, and more importantly doing it right and making it look like second nature, became the ultimate status symbol. One that no lottery winner is ever going to be able to just go out and buy.

If this is correct, then the ideologies around men's fashion are grounded in elitist culture /attitudes, and people copying them without necessarily being aware of their origin. Thanks for the information.

[Grok]

This appears to be an example of a jacket-less suit. Or quasi-suit; this seems to be an improvisation. The waistcoat would be closely coordinated with the trousers in a suit created from scratch.

BTW, the actor, Cuba Gooding Jr., played different roles in two different movies about the 332nd fighter group: Red Tails, and the Tuskegee Airmen. World War II fighter pilots who escorted bombers.

[Grok]

To generalize about online material I have looked at....

Concept of creating a focus, or focal point, with clothing. With mens traditional trouser suits, this is typically a neck tie. The neck tie is framed by the collar of the jacket, drawing the eye towards it. Typically the one part of the suit that is usually (somewhat) more colorful than the rest of the rig, and also being one of the very few options for individuality.

A waist coat can have a similar effect, framing the necktie.

Basically the framed area is vertical, usually being white shirt. White is a neutral that goes well with most any color of tie, jacket, waist coat, trousers. The framed area is vertical, intended for a long strip of cloth.

Other types of ties, such as bow ties, don't cover much of the framed area. Leaving a large colorless patch of white.

Been wondering if young men, a number of whom wear necklaces, might do something with that patch. One thing I have imagined, is a loop of simple gold chain, extending below a bow tie or ascot, for example.

Another idea that occurred to me would be an additional framing device, in the form of a choker. White pearls?

[Grok]

I think I should explain why I have discussed suits so much. I have noticed interest-from several different sources-in some sort of skirt suit for men. As skirts in general lend themselves well to a formal appearance, I think at least one version of a skirt suit could gain traction...someday

Jewelry has not been my particular interest, but I have noticed some men wearing jewelry that would have been extremely rare, if not unthinkable, in my youth. Jewelry seems to have already gained more traction than MIS, so it seems conceivable that someday such will be added to a suit rig. Initially, most likely with a trousers suit, because that is a type that already exists.

[Grok]

In a jewelry thread Stevie had mentioned that he sometimes wears a necklace over a tie or silk scarf. Seems to me that there is considerable room for creativity here For example, create a layered, coordinated look, with a necklace over a silk scarf or ascot.

[Mouse]

I know this is not quite what you were thinking of, but I, quite out of character, decided I needed a neckless to finish off a neckline and top of an outfit. Since I did not own a neckless, I did the next best thing and printed one in orange PLA, to go with the other orange bits of my outfit.

[Grok]

Looks good!

[Dust]

I think I should explain why I have discussed suits so much. I have noticed interest-from several different sources-in some sort of skirt suit for men. As skirts in general lend themselves well to a formal appearance, I think at least one version of a skirt suit could gain traction...someday

While we need to move past them, kilt suits are a good starting point, for sure. The proportions work, they are recognizably masculine, and of course, kilts are in fact a type of skirt. I've found a few kilt dealers with options where the kilt matches the jacket.

Unfortunately, anything invoking "The Kilt™" carries baggage and a hefty price tag.

For me, the kilt is a reference point and a step along the way, not an end point. It's a fairly safe place to be and a source of inspiration and guidance on what works. Ultimately, I'm looking to create something better.

Casual is fairly easy to make work. Formal attire with all the rules is where it gets tough. Breaking significant rules in such a setting, to me at least, seems to require getting almost everything else right and being deliberate about how we break the rules we do break. This is not to make new rules, per se, but to create something new that can be accepted in such situations and develop styles that become the broad exceptions to the rules that ultimately take them down.

[Grok]

I recall a post in which a member mentioned neck tabs. A neck tab is a form of female neck wear. Worn as part of the uniform of a female soldier. Neck tabs seem to be generally black, though I recall an image of a red one.

Another possibility for a man's suit. Imagine a brilliantly colored neck tab worn with a while dress shirt.

[Grok]

There is a thread in which necklaces were suggested as an alternative to neck ties.

Different styles.

[Grok]

Different necklace lengths for [url=https://www.brilliantearth.com/jewelry/ ... ength-men/] men.

Note-the cloth measuring tape would be used to determine the length of a choker. I have used such a tape to determine waist size.

[Grok]

Stacking/layering necklaces.

[Grok]

Types of bracelets.