Wearing a Dress in Public Today

[skirtyscot]

Calm down, it's only an observation (OK the N Korea bit was there to wind you up and it seems to have worked ). Rather than get into a fight I decided to see if anyone else had thought the same as me and look what I found, it turned out plenty of people had: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 8541356631

Is it really true that the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a man who wanted to sell more flags to schools? Someone said that in that reddit thread.

[oldsalt1]

I believe the comment was one of genuine curiosity and not one of disrespect or insult.

No it wasn't , he admitted that he just said it to incite me. And if you were able to awake your grandfather he would probably cry at the disrespect that the flag is being shown. No matter what the country has evolved into disrespecting the symbol disrespects all those who have fought and died for it.

[crfriend]

Is it really true that the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a man who wanted to sell more flags to schools? Someone said that in that reddit thread.

I can't talk to that assertion, but one of the things that frosted me about the thing was the 1950s McCarthy-era addition of "under God". In the rare instances where I'm expected to recite the thing I invariably omit those words, and if challenged bring up the history. This usually involves baffled faces and ruffled feathers. My reaction is to simply state, "Well, if I'm not fit for your function then simply eject me from the premises after dismissing any other matters."

I still recall a very brief moment of time in late September of 2001 when Flags were everywhere and I wished it might be a sign of reconciliation betwixt the warring local factions. Sadly, that never came to pass. The rest, they say, is history.

[crfriend]

No it wasn't , he admitted that he just said it to incite me.

That was the specific crack about North Korea.

And if you were able to awake your grandfather he would probably cry at the disrespect that the flag is being shown. No matter what the country has evolved into disrespecting the symbol disrespects all those who have fought and died for it.

No, I quite suspect he wouldn't recognise a dollop of what the place has become save for the trappings. He was an extremely bright man -- and more than capable of seeing through shams and deception. I believe he'd be utterly bewildered about how badly it's gone wrong. He was never one much given to symbolism anyway.

I'm still furious I didn't grab the 48-star flag that we had (and I grew up with knowing it was there) when the old house got sold.

[oldsalt1]

[q In the rare instances where I'm expected to recite the thing I invariably omit those words, and if challenged bring up the history.

Oh so now it is a thing. Its easy to see what side of the isle you are on. Please do me a favor when ever you are faced with the opportunity to say "THE THING " stick your fist in your mouth. And I sure as hell hope your grandfather can't hear any of this.

[crfriend]

[q In the rare instances where I'm expected to recite the thing I invariably omit those words, and if challenged bring up the history.

Oh so now it is a thing. Its easy to see what side of the isle you are on. Please do me a favor when ever you are faced with the opportunity to say "THE THING " stick your fist in your mouth. And I sure as hell hope your grandfather can't hear any of this.

We then need to learn to "agree to disagree" civilly. It's what civil society is all about.

[oldsalt1]

. He was never one much given to symbolism anyway.

I'm still furious I didn't grab the 48-star flag that we had (and I grew up with knowing it was there) when the old house got sold.[/quote]

If he was never one given to symbolism , why did he have the flag in the first place

[crfriend]

. He was never one much given to symbolism anyway.

I'm still furious I didn't grab the 48-star flag that we had (and I grew up with knowing it was there) when the old house got sold.

If he was never one given to symbolism , why did he have the flag in the first place

For one, it was what everyone did at the time, and two, the 48-star flag likely was purchased when he and my grandmother bought the house in 1939 when the country was still a republic. I only recall the 50-star one being flown on certain days of the year -- and never at night which seems to be in vogue today, although that may be down to layoffs and staffing cuts.

That the 48-star one was still extant in the early 1990s was likely down to forgetfulness (and Alzheimer's in his later years) and it being well-buried in a closet.

One of the things that pains me most about the recent environment is the absolute inability of folks to disagree about matters in a civil manner. This inability to civilly disagree about matters is especially pernicious as the vast bulk of the populate tend to agree on the overwhelming majority of topics that touch them daily. Why we allow the small matters to divide us so baffles me. As I mentioned, what has happened to the ability to disagree civilly?

[Elisabetta]

. It does seem rather silly to pledge to a piece of fabric.

Let me get this straight . Its ok for moon to come on the café and refer to the flag of my country as just a piece of fabric. and I should sit back and say that's just thread drift . No --------- way

Oldsalt

As a woman who comes from a Military upbringing ( my father served and fought 27 years in the United States Air Force) I don’t disrespect our flag. However we all come from different backgrounds. You can bring a horse to water but you can’t force it to drink. Not everyone is on the same page as you when it comes to the American Flag. We all have opinions and not everyone will agree with you and your beliefs. I’m not saying you have to put up with anything all I was simply asking was for the thread to resume back on the topic. Not everything on the Cafe is always Moon’s fault.Rather than others having to read drama or an issue you have with someone why not politely message them and talk to each other one on one with respect? I’m a lady and I hate seeing all this bickering between grown men. That’s all. Enjoy your evening.

[oldsalt1]

Jenn do me a favor . if you can, edit out the incivilities than if possible bring the subject to your father I would greatly appreciate insight as to his response. I apologize for attacking moon but at the same time he has to realize how what he is saying could effect other people. You can't stab somebody than expect them to quietly ask for a bandage

[oldsalt1]

For one, it was what everyone did at the time, and two, the 48-star flag likely was purchased when he and my grandmother bought the house in 1939 when the country was still a republic. I only recall the 50-star one being flown on certain days of the year -- and never at night which seems to be in vogue today, although that may be down to layoffs and staffing cuts.

I resent when you make a seemingly authoritative statement presumedly in support of your opinion without a basis of fact and your comments about the cause of flying the flag at night because of layoffs is indicative of your overall desire to besmirch the entire subject

Why we allow the small matters to divide us so baffles me. and I don't consider disrespect for the flag a small matter

[moonshadow]

Dan, I think you got overly worked up over my comment.

A flag, any flag is a piece of fabric. By itself, it does not do anything to guarantee the liberties of our republic. If we were invaded, and you ran it up a flag pole and our forces retreated leaving the flag alone, the invader would just lower it and raise their own. It's an inanimate object. It means nothing without the souls who pursue freedom below it. And as has been the case throughout history, people have committed atrocities, and acts of virtue under the same flag.

And you can't sit here and berate someone for holding an unpopular opinion about the flag of the home nation or what it represents, while at the same time proclaim that you stand for individual liberty. [0] The two principles are in conflict. When we proceed down that path then we are on the road to tyranny. This is what got Germany in trouble, an unyielding allegiance to state, no matter what the cost.

[0] Though I will admit, you never actually said (to my knowledge) you stand for individual liberty... Perhaps I just assumed so. Perhaps this is a good time to ask, where are your loyalties Dan? Will you obey the state at all cost? Even if it injures in innocent? If this is the case, than that it certainly your right, and I will respect it, and on that note, we shall just have to agree to disagree. But I am open to being corrected, and certainly hope that I am.

P.S. I'll bet you a shiny new nickel that the only part of my comment that will be quoted will be:

A flag, any flag is a piece of fabric. By itself, it does not do anything to guarantee the liberties of our republic....It means nothing

And this kiddies... is how propaganda, and lest we forget the newest trend, "fake news" is created...

Another example:

It does seem rather silly to pledge to a piece of fabric.

Let me get this straight . Its ok for moon to come on the café and refer to the flag of my country as just a piece of fabric. and I should sit back and say that's just thread drift . No --------- way

My post was much more in depth that the one line you picked out and decided to get worked up over. Did you even bother to read anything else in the text?

Here's a little more... for the sake of context:

Growing up I heard it every morning and never really thought about its meaning. It does seem rather silly to pledge to a piece of fabric. Of course also included are the lines "and to the republic for which it stands". I'd hazard a guess that few children even know what a republic is, and probably figure it has something to do with Republicans. I'm not sure than I have recited the pledge since reaching the age of adulthood, and as we know a minor can not enter a binding contract.

In case you missed it, I bolded and underlined the punch line of that whole paragraph, it was to indicate that the pledge of allegiance does indeed have more to do than simply with a flag, for it is in the very text "AND to the Republic, for which it stands". The wording would have made more logical sense (to me anyway) had it been something like "I pledge allegiance to my Country, and to the Republic for which it stands".

Of course, if this were prior to the civil war, I might have said something like "I pledge allegiance to Virginia", such as Robert E Lee basically did, back when the states were truly sovereign.

...now there you done gone and done it... I fired up the dinosaur (my old computer) for this post... this took a lot of formatting.

One final note, I appreciate the liberty to clear my name on this. I realize I have blatantly disregarded the rules of the cafe, and apologize in advance for this, I attempted to "let it go" however it was clear after several post that the only line Dan saw was the one where I referred to the flag as "just a piece of fabric". I, likewise find it very annoying when 99% of my words are ignored and someone chooses to pounce on one single line taken out of context. I am doubly annoyed that it appears that I am being painted some type of "flag burning hippie", which couldn't be further from truth. And on that note, I feel there is nothing more I can extract out of this argument. So, to the mods, again I apologize for muddying the waters further, having nothing more to say, I believe this is now a dead horse, and I shall bow out.

I bid you good day sir!

[moonshadow]

So ummm.... how's that dress working out for you lately weeladdie.....?

[STEVIE]

Ummm Hi Moon,
Not Weeladdie here but it is about dresses.
I intend to make 2019 my year of the dress and that will be revealed in a separate thread.
For what its worth, the look will be inspired by a conversation which we were both involved in.
That one drifted a bit too. I reckon there are times that humans just ramble on so I'll shut up now.
Regards to Jenn too.
Steve.

[oldsalt1]

Moon my final comments First I never said you couldn't say what you want just not on a sight about wearing dresses. Second take your entire argument present it to your father in law . And as far as where my loyalties are , I have already proved that