Men skirted as men.

[Since1982]

JeffB, what a handsome man, quite sharp looking. You have a very pleasant clean look to you. The bag is just the right thing to have, hangs comfortably at your side, looks very relaxed. I agree fully, the loafers compleet the refined look.
Of course if you wanted a less refined look, what some would possibly call a manly look.... just remove the pantyhose and wear normal men's shoes. Easy. But I think your look is very complimenting.

Even IF you wanted to dress femme, and be seen as such, then "to hell with any self-consciousness!" is the right attitude.

I didn't think posters were supposed to be promoting "the fem look for men" was I wrong?

There are posters on this site pushing constantly for skirted men to wear all kinds of womanly accoutrements. Some of these posters, wear nothing but womanly things. They are saying that dressing very fem will push forward the cause of men in skirts. I don't believe this is true. There are already lots of men wearing the whole nine yards of woman's clothes, these men are usually thought of as crossdressers or transvestites and have been around a long long time, unlike the idea of men looking like men in skirts which, I think, is what we are trying to put forward here, and have been showing up only for a few years. I don't THINK we are trying to come across as feminine men sans wigs or fake boobs, I THINK we are trying to come across as men with an alternative lower body clothing choice that compares favorably with the various Male Unbifurcated Garments that males wear across the existing
70% or so of the world. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[Uncle Al]

Skip,

I agree with you on this but, each poster is entitled to their opinion. You and I don't agree
with some of the posts and their content as it is more 'fem' than we like. I would just like
to be able to wear a skirt/kilt with regular shirts, socks/or over the calf men's hose.
The latter I must wear as they are support hose, and help keep the blood clots from returning.

Going the route of a 'cross-dresser' is not what we are about. We just want an alternative to
trousers or pants, and be accepted for our choices and not be put down by society in general.

I hope that we can get a Skirt Day going as an alternative to the No Pants Day. I've already
sent an email about this, and will be sending another to one of our members about the domain
name that he owns the rights to. I hope this will help to influence men, and the fashion world
designers, that not only kilts but also skirts are OK for men. Skirts and kilts have many health
benefits for men--which is an added plus for 'our side of the coin'.

The above email is one teeny-tiny step to accomplish this. I hope we can gain that '1st mile',
but it will take many of these tiny steps to get there. You'd better get your 'walking shoes' in
shape so we can Walk That Mile together.

Anyone else care to join our walk?

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[Gus]

Uncle Al

Just for clarity - I am not intending to sell the domain name. It is for those people at the Cafe who are interested in turning this into something. I am also willing to lend whatever support I can.

Gus

[Uncle Al]

Gus,

I just sent you a detailed PM. Please read and PM me back.

Thanks!

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

[Gus]

Done!

[miniskirt07]

You can wear what you like - it dont matter women or men skirts, men can wear any type of skirt that just normal clothes as I have lots of mini skirts with size 6 (cos Im underweight - cant use men clothes size), tights, calf & knee-high boots with flat heels also flat heel shoes such as pump shoes that look nice to wear - I wear it and took my dog for a walk that really cool also feel good -- Just buy and wear what you like as it still normal clothes we like to wear

[AMM]

....Even IF you wanted to dress femme, and be seen as such, then "to hell with any self-consciousness!" is the right attitude.

I didn't think posters were supposed to be promoting "the fem look for men" was I wrong?

Well, I'm not the owner of SkirtCafe, but my understanding was that what we weren't supposed to be promoting was "men pretending to be women," i.e., Orthodox Crossdressing.

Most of us here, when we say "femme," are referring to clothing items, styles, and elements that are customarily considered "feminine." Every outfit we talk about wearing here, except maybe "traditional" Scottish kilts, would be considered "femme" by most people in current Western society. It's a question of how many "feminine" vs. how many "masculine" elements we wear (and how we come across wearing them.)

However, dressing in a more "femme" manner does not mean trying to pass as a woman. As has been pointed out at various times here and elsewhere, most of what we now consider "femme" elements were at some times and places considered entirely acceptable for men -- lace, ruffles, make-up, tights, puffed sleeves, jewelry, even skirts. Part of the expressed goal of this web site is to reclaim this heritage, so that men can wear them without being accused of "dressing like a woman."

[crfriend]

[...] my understanding was that what we weren't supposed to be promoting was "men pretending to be women," i.e., Orthodox Crossdressing.

Most of us here, when we say "femme," are referring to clothing items, styles, and elements that are customarily considered "feminine." Every outfit we talk about wearing here, except maybe "traditional" Scottish kilts, would be considered "femme" by most people in current Western society. It's a question of how many "feminine" vs. how many "masculine" elements we wear (and how we come across wearing them.) [...]

I am in firm agreement with AMM's assesment of the situation and could not have put it better myself. Thank you, sir.

Additionally, I'm growing somewhat tired of the seeming sniping that's going on. We'll never agree on all things -- even in the limited scope of "alternative mens fashion" -- and we should not be expected to agree on everything. What we need, however, is to understand -- and exercise -- the notion of "we can agree to disagree" and not carp on about things.

[Peter v]

JeffB, what a handsome man, quite sharp looking. You have a very pleasant clean look to you. The bag is just the right thing to have, hangs comfortably at your side, looks very relaxed. I agree fully, the loafers compleet the refined look.
Of course if you wanted a less refined look, what some would possibly call a manly look.... just remove the pantyhose and wear normal men's shoes. Easy. But I think your look is very complimenting.

Even IF you wanted to dress femme, and be seen as such, then "to hell with any self-consciousness!" is the right attitude.

I didn't think posters were supposed to be promoting "the fem look for men" was I wrong?

There are posters on this site pushing constantly for skirted men to wear all kinds of womanly accoutrements. Some of these posters, wear nothing but womanly things. They are saying that dressing very fem will push forward the cause of men in skirts. I don't believe this is true. There are already lots of men wearing the whole nine yards of woman's clothes, these men are usually thought of as crossdressers or transvestites and have been around a long long time, unlike the idea of men looking like men in skirts which, I think, is what we are trying to put forward here, and have been showing up only for a few years. I don't THINK we are trying to come across as feminine men sans wigs or fake boobs, I THINK we are trying to come across as men with an alternative lower body clothing choice that compares favorably with the various Male Unbifurcated Garments that males wear across the existing
70% or so of the world. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

"They are saying that dressing very fem will push forward the cause of men in skirts."
Show me where that is stated.
I do not say that so who is saying that?
Willingly pulling things out of context does no good and is in itself detrimental.
I would even go so far as to suggest that the attitude shown by the above posting from Since 1982 Looks, Looks to come from the same macho thinking of men's fashion in pants. With the only exception that a skirt may be allowed in place of a pair of pants.

Stabbing at me won't help, I have a thick hide. Name me if you want to have a go at me.
If there is anybody on the forum who wants to spend energy in getting MEN IN SKIRTS, AS MEN, then it is me!
How I dress personally has no bearing on my interest in men in skirts and mentioning that fact is like suggesting that electing a woman in pants for president would mean that all women and men would have to wear only pants also.

What is this "sans wigs or fake boobs" thing? who is talking about that except YOU?
Nobody is pushing anything except some who seem to want to inhibit anything other than only the very macho look whatever that may be, and that would be very limiting and bad for any fashion freedom which is neccessary as a basis for men to wear any other clothing than men's fashion in pants.
So why not state that pantys are taboo, even skirts must have the "male skirt" label in them, Only men's shoes. Please, Men in skirts is so much more . To suggest that men in skirts can be fitted into one particular stereotype clothing combination is ridiculess. How many styles and choices are there in the men's garederobe with pants? Very many. Men in skirts should "be allowed" at least that, and more because there is so much more possible, especially with skirts.
And as I have stated before, there are so many personally chosen outfits possible for skirted men, but all still being men in skirts, it would be near criminal to willingly limit those possibilitys.

Giving men the option, the wide spectrum to chose from, fit in, will not say that it would be used by all. Most likely most men would not even dare to go further than a very macho skirted outfit IF they would want anything else.

If most men are as you seem to want to suggest then why even bother "getting at me"? Even IF I or another was "pushing", which nobody is, there would be no response anyway, as apparently probably most men would only want to go as far as the step to exchange their denim jeans for a denim skirt or something very near to that anyway.

So then why all the panic?
One of the reasons that I do mention a broader possibility in fashion choice for skirted men is just that very fact that some here are very persistent in calling for a very inhibited, limited version of men in skirts, leaving no room for any deviation.
That is nearly as bad as wearing pants and not "being allowed" to wear a skirt.
Also my comments were very respectful, and I do think that the outfit was and is a refined outfit, very manly, but with refinement fitting to a skirted outfit. Unfortunately apparently seen by some as feminine.

My last statement if read with an open and respectful mind is very correct. It does not limit any variation on the theme, leaving room for personal preferances, which is something that seems to be absent in some postings. And refers to the correct attitude men should take in their defence, regarding being skirted.
"Even IF you wanted to dress femme, and be seen as such, then "to hell with any self-consciousness!" is the right attitude.

In no way is any statement made to suggest that every man dress feminine or as a travestite. You of all people should know that.

[Pythos]

You are wrong, and you have been corrected.

[Big and Bashful]

You are wrong, and you have been corrected.

Pythos,
who was that one directed at? You got me curious!

[SkirtedViking]

How come women never accuse themselves as being too masculine in terms of clothing and whatsoever? Only a male who is not sure in his physical masculinity and appearance may have a problem with men's fashion equality.
P.S. I do not intend to pass for a woman, have a nice beard, muscular body and cropped haircut. I see everyday women in baseball caps,trousers, man's t-shirts, flat shoes with laces and so on-noone is blaming them for their choice.

[Ray]

Here we go again.

On the one hand, the pragmatists and the bravehearts. They know what works in public.

On the other hand, the idealists. They state that men are denied fashion equality, and should have it NOW!

(both big generalisations, but I hope - really HOPE - that you get my drift)

Both right, yet with differing arguments; different priorities; different concerns.

Round and round we go.

I have a foot in both camps, FWIW.

[Ray]

You are wrong, and you have been corrected.

Pythos,
who was that one directed at? You got me curious!

I think it was at Skip, who asked..."or am I mistaken" at the end of his post.

I could be wrong though!

Ray (in skirt, green rugby shirt, and ....uh,,, long sock type things that go up to the waist. Very comfortable and thick...and very manly! RobinHood look, y'now? Same colour!)

[AMM]

How come women never accuse themselves as being too masculine in terms of clothing and whatsoever?

They do, at least in my part of the world. But you have to be listening to hear it.

I see everyday women in baseball caps,trousers, man's t-shirts, flat shoes with laces and so on-noone is blaming them for their choice.

On the contrary, women are constantly criticized for what they wear and how they look. Even here at SkirtCafe.

I can only speculate as to why this barrage of criticism doesn't stop them from trying so-called "masculine" styles, but since nobody else in the world seems to think that total ignorance is a reason not to express one's ideas as if they were Received Truth, I'll donate my speculations to the public discussion:

1. Maybe many women decide after a while that, since they're going to be called fat, ugly, and badly dressed (cf. People magazine's regular "worst dressed" feature) no matter what they do, they might as well go ahead and dress as they please. As my mom used to say, "may as well get hanged for a sheep as for a lamb."

2. In Western culture, power is associated with being male, and being female with being powerless and easy to abuse (cf. Sandy Posey's song "Born a Woman") If a woman wears "male" clothing or "male" hairstyles, etc., she seems to be associating herself with power, and you always get a kind of (grudging) respect if you try to be or at least look more powerful. So even if she gets criticized for it, she also gets rewarded with a measure of respect (remember the song R-E-S-P-E-C-T?) On the other hand, if a man dresses or acts or tries to look "feminine," he's seen as trying to be less powerful -- a weakling or a "wimp," and and people (male and female) have nothing but contempt for a "wimp."