Being required to wear neckties if you are male.

[3genders]

At the beginning of the 21st century, there are still so many places and situations for which dress code rules state that men must wear neckties.

I'd be very interested to read about forum members' opinions and experiences with regard to this seemingly 'evergreen', yet circa 200-years-old, male dress requirement.

Yes, in some cases (e.g. as part of a school/company/organisation uniform), it is obligatory for women to wear neckties too. However, when men are expected/told to wear a tie it is, more often than not, purely required on the basis of gender and is so often not specifically/necessarily part of a designated uniform.

I'm amazed that the vast majority of males never question this. By contrast women have, and do, question gender specific dress codes such as being required to wear skirts - plus the debate about wearing a veil is an extremely hot, widespread issue - and not purely in feminist circles.

I've heard plenty of men complain privately about having to wear a tie; yet curiously, opposition to the prevalence of this genderist dress-code phenomenon seems to be shelved by the 'mainstream' as largely a non-issue.

Hmmm...?

[crfriend]

At the beginning of the 21st century, there are still so many places and situations for which dress code rules state that men must wear neckties.

I'd be very interested to read about forum members' opinions and experiences with regard to this seemingly 'evergreen', yet circa 200-years-old, male dress requirement.

I haven't been "required" to wear a necktie for better than a decade. The job I had through the 1990s first went to grunge^W "casual" Fridays in the mid '90s and pretty much did away with most of the old dress code in the late '90s (except for safety-related matters like hard-hats and steel-toed footwear on construction sites).

That said, I've likely worn more ties in the past six months than I have in the past six years -- and I like the way they look; they add a bit of splash in an otherwise completely unremarkable world. Shirt technology has also gotten vastly better as well. The newest batch of dress shirts have expanding collars that have the top button on a length of elastic; this makes them vastly more comfortable than the old rigid ones.

Oh, and it's also fun to fiddle with the narrow-minded heads that permeate modern society. To heck with Beau Brummel (and his ilk); I want to stand out sometimes!

[cessna152towser]

If the necktie is part of the uniform and you are proud to work for that organisation I would not have a problem with it. I can remember when I started commuting into the city to attend university back in the sixties I would have felt naked travelling into town with no tie on, but over the years dress codes became gradually more relaxed and tee-shirts and polo shirts gradually took over from the traditional dress shirt with its stiff collar and neck tie. But there can still be an occasion to dress up in the traditional style, for example a job where you deal a lot with the public, and I always wore a formal shirt and necktie as part of my office attire every day until I retired as a town hall manager, though some days I wore it with a kilt rather than trousers.

[knickerless]

For years I never wore a tie. But since I have been wearing skirts - I always wear a tie with a skirt suit or skirt/shirt/jacket- sort of taking the mickey out of traddition really.

Nick

[mugman]

I have dozens of ties from my City days which I haven't worn willingly for years now, except for weddings and funerals. They remind me too much of work, and client meetings. I don't have a big problem with wearing one if I feel this is required (job interview, special venue, etc), but can't say I enjoy them particularly. I've gone for so long without one on that they always feel awkward on the rare occasions I have to wear one.

[knickerless]

I think I was criticised for wearing a tie in one of my photos!

nick

[Colin]

I have spent years of wearing a neck-tie for work, but in the last two years (following a change of job), I have followed the example of other men in the office, and usually only wear a tie for clients meetings.
When we arrived for one client's meeting, we were told "no ties" - "health and safety" which applied to a large gas terminal and to all the offices on site. At other meetings there are often now a mix of some men with ties and some with open neck shirts.
I don't like wearing a tie, personally, and don't like shirts to be too tight round the neck. The old freedom, comfort and sex discrimination themes, again, as with skirts and kilts.
I have normally worn sweat shirts, tee shirts or open neck casual shirts to Church for many years, even when I have led the music team. Weddings or Funerals have been exceptions with traditional suit and tie.

[floatingmetal]

I've not worn a tie for work, even in jobs where I was supposed to, pretty much ever. Initially (and especially since this was purely office-based, internal-facing) I got round it by wearing the same polo shirts that our volunteers wore, so nobody could complain about it being scruffy or unprofessional without implying the same about 90,000 volunteers out in the field.

These days, mostly I wear grandad-collar shirts - i.e. no collar you can put a tie around. Most of the clients I go to are casual and often deal with disadvantaged people (in various ways and who often have a distrust of authority) so looking too smart would be as inappropriate as too scruffy. So, either a polo shirt if I'm going to doing lots of crawling around under desks, or plain shirt.

Corporate clients get the shirt but still no tie - no complaints so far. And tough if they do, frankly. My knowledge / skill set isn't enhanced by wearing one and that's what they're paying for. They want me to wear fancy dress, it'll be reflected in the invoice or I might just not go.

Will be interesting to see what reaction a kilt gets in the summer (if it's a decently warm one) though. Intending to get a Ultilikilts Survival in a light colour, to go with the black Original I got last year but only really wore out to a few folk festivals rather than out on the town, as it were.

[Departed Member]

I note that medical orderlies (& doctors?) in the UK are now forbidden (or are about to be) to wear ties due to concerns over the proven transmission of MRSA 'superbugs' in hospitals!

So there you go - your tie could be responsible for infecting customers or other members of staff, regardless of where you work!

[3genders]

Thank you for the interesting feedback, everyone

Well, I guess that some people like wearing ties and some people don't...it seems that it's just a matter of personal preference, or even mood, really. And, I think that in an ideal world this is just how it should be.

I didn't want to come across as particularly anti-tie. On the contrary, I think that there are some really beautiful, varied and colourful ties out there.

I think that ties can also provide a welcome, and often rare outlet, for men to express their individuality and personality through the way they dress. For instance, I have a colleague who is into science fiction and wears one that has pictures of UFOs on it !

What I do have difficulties with, however, is the element of compulsion that still exists in many schools, workplaces and social situations where males are required to wear ties simply on the grounds of gender. Many restaurants refuse to serve men who don't turn up wearing a tie, for instance.

Isn't this a gendered dress requirement which is similar to women having to wear veils in some countries, for example? By a strange twist of irony, tie-wearing is considered decadent and anti-establishment by those who make the rules in contemporary Iran.

[Peter v]

As of the moment, here in the Netherlands, women wear shawls as a sort of tie. That is a fashion thing at the moment, with thinner beautiful shals / scarves now for the summer. They look great and are not compulsary. men's ties are still pretty old school. There was a time that men also wore shawls. And no they were not all gay. It was a fashion freedom, and very colourful.

"What I do have difficulties with, however, is the element of compulsion that still exists in many schools, workplaces and social situations where males are required to wear ties simply on the grounds of gender. Many restaurants refuse to serve men who don't turn up wearing a tie, for instance."

I think;
Think about why those restaurant rules are set. Wearing a tie means that the wearer must be wearing a decent shirt to wear the tie on. It is probably more about the shirt than the tie. Wearing the ( neat) shirt with a tie means that all shirts are worn done up, thus all are of the same neatnes. Whereas if no ties were needed, the extent of open shirts would possibly range from neat top button loose, to completely open unbuttoned shirts, or T shirts etc. and leaving the owners pretty powerless to keep up a clotghing ettiquet for that restaurant which ensures an enjoyable entourage, visit which can be counted upon every visit.

The tie has in the above the function of keeping the worn clothing neat and orderly, of a particular standard. The problem is when there is no limmiting factor, some people go to the farthest extremes, and ruin it for all others. When ties are mandatory, there is a wide range of colour and design and are mostly of your own choosing.

I prefer no tie, or more the freedom to dress responsibly with or without a tie. I would probably have the top one or two buttons neatly loose, bau others may have their shirts wide open, misusing the given freedom, and abusing the given freedom and throwing respect overboard. Sometimes it is a thin line to follow. Not all rules are made by grumpy old men, but many do have their function. Without restrictions many will dress to extremes, irresponsibly.

[sapphire]

One accessory that I've not seen mentioned in this thread is the ascot, a very attractive alternative to the standard necktie.

Perhaps if one views neckwear as a fashion accessory, all sort of possibilities emerge.

I've seen ties made from beads, ties made in macrame, ties made of wonderful handwoven fabric, all in the "traditional" shape of ties.

If you expand the notion to include ascots, scarves (rectangular shape) and shawls (triangular shape), bolos, there are endless possibilities for decoration.

The problem with ties is in making them mandatory. Still, I have seen men who have playfully and attractively pushed the boundaries of tie wearing.

[ChrisM]

Yes, I recently switched to shawls and ascots when forced by a corporate dress code to wear a tie. Of course, I CALLED it a tie, so that I could claim I was in compliance.

I no longer work for them, but I do like the look of the ascot and wear one when I want to look more formal. An ascot, my double-breasted jacket, and my new Derby hat, and I cut quite a dashing figure - or at least so indicate the compliments I get on the street!

Chris

[sapphire]

An ascot, my double-breasted jacket, and my new Derby hat,

Sounds delightful! Have you tried it with a skirt and perhaps an elegant walking stick/cane?

Years ago, I made a "puffy shirt" for Carl. The neck closed with a ribbon tie and had a band collar. It actually met the corporate dress code! It had a collar and a tie.

[Milfmog]

I had to look up an "Ascot"; to me that was a wall mounted water heater feeding a hand basin.

Turns out I was wearing an ascot when I got married, in a glorious shade of cerise (that's what my wife called it, I'd have said "dark, suck your eyes out pink") to match the bridesmaids dresses. The colour was far brighter than I'd have chosen but looked really good with a black jacket.

Now I know it was an ascot; will I ever cease to be amazed at the little things I can learn here?

Have fun,


Ian.