MIS in Wikipedia

[ChristopherJ]

The scary photos are back again, Isn't this the work of a 'spoiler' and is there no way to contact the owners of the wikipedia to stop spoilers spoiling pages once they have got to a certain standard without the potential changes being reviewed by the originator first?

They're not there now - or I can't see them (and I've refreshed my browser).

I thought it was a 'spoiler' when they were first put up. I don't know how Wikipedia copes with things like that. There must be some procedure in place to deal with it.

{EDIT}

Checking on the guy a bit more - he seems to be a bit of a nut. He has put photographs of himself and his fashions on the Wiki page for 'skirt' and 'rain jacket'.

I must say - he looks particularly fetching in his "rain suit" . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_jacket

[binx]

Radical Faerie fetish fashion from one of the Intel Corporation's finest...brought to you by the Wikipedia Marketplace. Go figure. No pun intended.

binx

[AMM]

... 'Twas the 'feminazis' who took up the deliberate policy of reaching for the ultra(?) masculine garments ...

Can we leave off the use of terms like 'feminazi'?

I don't know how it's used in the UK, but in the US, I've never heard it used except as a hate word by groups of people who use it to express their resentment of the changes in women's status over the past half-century and anything else they want to blame on it, from the 9/11 attacks to the cost of gasoline (petrol), and their unwillingness to listen to anyone who disagrees with them. I believe it was coined by Rush Limbaugh (a right-wing radio commentator) for just this purpose.

I don't see that using the word adds anything except a note of intolerance to the discussion.

I'd like to think that that is not what SkirtCafe is about.

And, yes, I consider myself a "feminist". (And, no, I don't feel any need to defend every statement, action, or position that has been associated with the term.)

If you want to discuss feminism or some of the positions that some people have associated with the term, that's fine (though I think it belongs in a separate thread), but I'd like to ask that we stick to more neutral terminology.

-- AMM

[Big and Bashful]

Now I've seen everything! Here is a man with no problems expressing his more extrovert side:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_Faeries

I just wish he would keep his art to his faery pages and leave the MIS pages alone. Must have a delve into the wiki depths to see how it all works, there must be some way to control people 'corrupting' pages or every Friday night after the bars shut there would be thousands of people out there who think page tweaking would be funny. Hmmm, it's tempting though!

[Big and Bashful]

I have had a look round the wikipedia site and by clicking on some things,. with some other things, found out that Mark Allyn appears to be part of a LGBT group who are trying to further their cause:mad: . I suppose that might be the Let's Get Battered Trout society but it's more likely to be Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transexual campaign type group.
Having daubed the men in skirts and skirts entry as well as another one about fairies or something I think the evidence points to Mark attempting to hi-jack the MIS article to his cause. Looking at the various ways to try and stop this you could start an 'edit war' with each protagonist (Nice word for a Friday!) constantly undoing each others changes. You could attempt to have him blocked from editing completely, negotiate with him (probably completely pointless) or request a Wikipedia advocacy thing. I think that is probably the best way to go. The man behind the original page could request an advocate to pass judgement having shown what Mark has done to these and other pages, pointing out the discussion and chat articles which show he has his LGBT agenda and is attempting to pervert the mind of an innocent little page and lead it astray.
I thought about trying that myself, but as I have only just joined the wiki community and have never altered, let alone created a page I don't think it would be right for me to go stamping in to the middle of a baby edit war.
Steve 1, if the pages are yours, do you fancy trying to get them straightened out permanently? Would you like some assistance if it would help?

[Departed Member]

Oh, my goodness! Those images are absolutely appalling! If that bloke wants to wander the streets, thus clad, that's his business. However, he would almost certainly frighten my grandkids - he frightens me, for sure! His outfit has nothing (obvious to me, that is) to do with "Men in Skirts" - has it?

[knickerless]

The man looks like gnome or a hobgoblin - fairies look must more friendly and attractive. I cannot see the connection between hobgoblins and the London General Bus and Tram society.

Nick

[Stevie D]

I ....found out that Mark Allyn appears to be part of a LGBT group who are trying to further their cause:mad: . I suppose that might be the Let's Get Battered Trout society but it's more likely to be Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transexual campaign type group........ The man behind the original page could request an advocate to pass judgement having shown what Mark has done to these and other pages, pointing out the discussion and chat articles which show he has his LGBT agenda and is attempting to pervert the mind of an innocent little page and lead it astray.....

Just on a point of order (as they say), please don't think that Mark Allyn is a typical representative of any LGBT group. Whatever you may think about LGBT people, I am fairly certain that most of them would want to distance themselves from him as vehemently as we do here.

[Big and Bashful]

Just on a point of order (as they say), please don't think that Mark Allyn is a typical representative of any LGBT group. Whatever you may think about LGBT people, I am fairly certain that most of them would want to distance themselves from him as vehemently as we do here.

Steve, don't get me wrong and don't read into my messages things I was very careful NOT to say. It does not matter whether I or anybody else are for or against LGBT people, Anybody doing what Mark Allyn is doing and sticking dubious photos onto a page which will defeat the intent of the page to further the designs of a pressure group is doing wrong. He has an entry in the wiki (as I linked to earlier) with his own picture, his own organisation and marking his place in the cosmos and I see nothing wrong with that, he has as much right as the next person to have an entry in the wiki describing his organisation. However, he went on to stick photos of his own products over the entry for skirts, and over the pages for men in skirts, repeatedly. I think this is wrong.
To me the Men in Skirts entry is to demonstrate that the ordinary man in the street can, if desired, put on a skirt and not look abnormal, just comfortable. I personally think his garish outfits do the opposite, they look freakish and give society an example of why men should be doomed to eternal bifurcation. His group should keep to their bits and leave us to ours. There is no point in just re-editing the page because the wiki people will end up banning someone, but something needs to be done.
As for the LBGT community, I had nothing against them but this sort of trickery could change that rapidly, I hope he is just an 'oddball' who embarrasses them as much as he presumeably embarrasses other skirted men. I have tried not to be controvertial because that doesn't help anybody, apologies if my message upsets anybody, unless it is somebody who likes to twist meanings just to be upset for the sake of it, in which case I won't waste any more words on them.

[Stevie D]

B&B: I wasn't trying to get at you; I think we are pretty much in agreement
I especially agree that Mark Allyn is an 'oddball' and that something needs to be done for the reasons you, and others here, have said. But what? I see the pictures are back again. I don't know enough about the way in which wikipedia is organised, but perhaps if Steve 1, the original page author, made a complaint to the admins, some good might come of it.

Slightly later edit:
I looked at the discussion page for the wikipedia entry and I see that Steve 1 (the original article author - writing as 'Bards') has actually endorsed Mark Allyn's photos. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Men_in_skirts
Oh dear.
Sorry, Steve 1, but I don't agree with this one little bit. Like many of us here, I think the photos are awful and give completely the wrong impression of what 'mainstream MIS' (to coin a phrase) is about.

[Departed Member]

Oh dear.
Sorry, Steve 1, but I don't agree with this one little bit. Like many of us here, I think the photos are awful and give completely the wrong impression of what 'mainstream MIS' (to coin a phrase) is about.

Just when those of us struggling to convince 'nearest & dearest' that we're not 'oddballs' &/or 'wierdos' or are going onto high heels, etc. etc., along comes this gent in his garish, what-the-f**k, outfit and dumps himself into a perfectly reasonable article. He's no more 'representative' of the title than, say, an Arab in traditional robes would be. As has been discussed before on this forum, the 'crossdresser' clan, in the main, deeply resent blokes wearing skirts 'for the sake of it'. I'm now more than convinced, this is a deliberate act of 'wiki-sabotage'. :ninjajig:

[binx]

They're neither stylish nor attractive regarding attire that I consider as men's skirts. I'm disappointed with Steve 1 if he truly believes that those images meet either criterion.:shake:

binx

[DrWu]

I don't think the second outfit is terrible, but it's certainly not what should be on that page, which is men wearing skirts as everyday clothing, and looking reasonable doing it.

[Stevie D]

They're neither stylish nor attractive regarding attire that I consider as men's skirts. I'm disappointed with Steve 1 if he truly believes that those images meet either criterion.:shake:

At the moment, it looks as if Mark Allyn's photos on the Wikipedia MIS page are there to stay. Anyone can delete them, but he will only replace them, and I'm not sure what the Wiki admin's response would be to such a ping-pong series of edits. Probably it would get the sane ones among us banned from editing the page further.

So - perhaps the answer is not to try to get Mark Allyn's photos removed but to ADD photos of our own - a good selection of sensible, workable, photos of ourselves in skirts going about our ordinary daily life. In this way, people viewing the page would see what an oddball Mark Allyn is. Especially if we add a caption to our photos saying something like "normal, practical example of a man's skirt".

What do you think? Who is up for adding a photo? I think it needs to be (a) depict the skirt and wearer in a 'public' setting, i.e. not just in your front room, but in the street, shop, work place, etc., so viewers can see clearly that we are not 'closet skirt wearers'. And (b) the photo should include our face - not necessarily as a main feature, but to just crop the photo to exclude the face or to blur out the face sends the message that we are afraid and ashamed of what we do.

So - who's in? Jan Bruyndonckx (Kiltair), Dick Ackerman, and ChristopherJ have already offered, so come on, guys - you can do it yourself - just get in there and add your photos to show folks what real MIS are all about.

[Big and Bashful]

Now that is depressing, An encyclopedia entry which makes an excellent job of explaining the Men in Skirts 'movement' was one thing, then a (Better be diplomatic!) an eccentric who appears to make home made garments out of curtains starts sticking ridiculous pictures over every skirty article he can turns the whole concept of 'men in skirts being normal' into a joke, I thought that was bad enough but then to see the page author vouching for the pictures, is it a conspiracy?
As they say, anybody can change a wikipedia page, if you do delete pictures or replace them with more appropriate pictures, which is allowed, then make sure you explain in the talk / discussion page why you have done so. I have just seen in the discussion page that a certain wierdo is threatening to make more costumes, model them and add them as well! I always said that Care in The Community was a bad thing!
I was thinking about making the changes myself but what is the point? I have no photos of normal skirted men in normal situations, if I had the courage to wander around Glasgow in a skirt instead of a kilt I know no-one who I could ask to photograph me doing it. Somebody out there must have better photos which they could replace Marks photos with, please! If those photos were more appropriate and this was explained in the discussion page in a non-insulting way, then maybe the wiki arbiters would be more likely to prevent strange people turning the pages into a joke.
If anyone out there has better pictures but doesn't fancy trying to change wiki themselves I could take the photos and make the changes myself, well, try to anyway.