Yes CR Friend, I too am an engineer. I have noted that many of your posts ring true with my mindset.
I note the same with much of Lar's insight, and Lar I particularly appreciate your analytical approach. Thanks for raising questions such as this one.
I just came home from work and immediately peeled off trousers and tights and donned a skirt. (Tights because it's near freezing here in Norway this week.) Never really gave a thought to putting trousers back on. I have only four skirts with me - two kilts, this ankle-length skirt (which I like wearing on transatlantic flights) and one sarong. So why didn't I don my kilt? Definitely because of the fussy pleats. I have to iron them every time I wear it.
Last weekend I went for a long walk in my kilt, and had a bad problem of cling with my nylon tights ("Varm Longs" in Norwegian.) I doubled back home and changed to a pair of wool tights and this yielded a substantial improvement in the problem. My wife, who was accompanying me, advised me that this behaviour was normal and that there was no really good solution. (I did not have a slip on, as the only one I brought is flame red for my red kilt, but ill-suited to a Black Watch tartan!)
Best regards lads!
Chris
Why do you do it?
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bob striks
- Member
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:04 am
deepest Apology
I think I may have unintentionally touched a nerve with you Bravehart. I absolutely agree with you the narrow definitions given for transvestic fetishism are to narrow and discriminatory. I think that men in skirts to often get miss labeled by society and the mental health field. transvestic fetishism is a diagnosis that has very specific criteria for diagnosis, two very important parts of which make it not apply to the skirts for men movement are that people with transvestic fetishism have a desire to appear to be the opposite sex and far more importantly that it causes a marked distress in the persons life. If it does not cause marked distress for the person and interfere with their life it’s not a disorder and therefore not in need of mental health intervention, plain and simple. Men how wish to wear skirts for what ever reasons have the right to do so. So, anyway, I agree that the clinical terms of psychology do not apply here and I apologize if I have offended anyone, it was certainly not my attention. I believe in fashion freedom for men and will continue to work to change harts and minds especially within my profession.
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davereporter
- Active Member
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:12 am
- Location: Australia
I suppose this is the "boy" in me (ie. practicality rather than fashion or looks)
The reason I wear skirts is comfort particularly in the hot Australian summer where temperatures above 95F are not uncommon. For this reason I choose practical skirts with pockets, some form of belt and in dull colours to minimise the attention I attract.
I can feel if a skirt is "girly" and to be honest I feel uncomfortable so I know that it is not a sexual thing. I have tried different styles but I know that wearing a "girly" skirt feels ick to me (not a judgement just my personal experience) so I don't do it.
I do believe that men should have the right to freedoms just as our lady friends have but I am far too apathetic to fight for a cause and take the social consequences that such a fight inevitably has.
In the past I suffered terribly from "jock itch" (for over 20 years) and have notice that the problem has effectively gone since wearing skirts and nightshirts so there is a health component to it. From time to time my legs swell (the veins around the groin are enlarged as a result of past obesity and damage from the constant infection) so I will sometimes wear support stockings. No turn on there - they are uncomfortable but so are sore swollen legs! Of course stockings in a skirt are bearable whereas stockings under trousers are very uncomfortable except in the depths of winter (which means around 40 - 50F around here on a very cold day). (Stockings = U.S. Pantyhose)
So in a nutshell, comfort and practicality... which is why my favourite skirts are denim, stretch cord, chinos with pockets, belts and fly front.
Dave
The reason I wear skirts is comfort particularly in the hot Australian summer where temperatures above 95F are not uncommon. For this reason I choose practical skirts with pockets, some form of belt and in dull colours to minimise the attention I attract.
I can feel if a skirt is "girly" and to be honest I feel uncomfortable so I know that it is not a sexual thing. I have tried different styles but I know that wearing a "girly" skirt feels ick to me (not a judgement just my personal experience) so I don't do it.
I do believe that men should have the right to freedoms just as our lady friends have but I am far too apathetic to fight for a cause and take the social consequences that such a fight inevitably has.
In the past I suffered terribly from "jock itch" (for over 20 years) and have notice that the problem has effectively gone since wearing skirts and nightshirts so there is a health component to it. From time to time my legs swell (the veins around the groin are enlarged as a result of past obesity and damage from the constant infection) so I will sometimes wear support stockings. No turn on there - they are uncomfortable but so are sore swollen legs! Of course stockings in a skirt are bearable whereas stockings under trousers are very uncomfortable except in the depths of winter (which means around 40 - 50F around here on a very cold day). (Stockings = U.S. Pantyhose)
So in a nutshell, comfort and practicality... which is why my favourite skirts are denim, stretch cord, chinos with pockets, belts and fly front.
Dave
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crfriend
- Master Barista
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Apologies?
Hi Bob,
It is fact that the clinical diagnosis of transvestic fetishism requires that the condition "cause marked distress", but the meta-queation that the manual fails to ask is, "Why does it cause such distress?". Down that road is where the larger answer lies, and I suspect the reason that the distress is present relates to the fact that modern western societies shackle men into straitjackets that aren't applied equally to women, and that's decidedly medieval in its approach. So, given that, it's only natural that otherwise reasonably normal (yeah, go ahead and diagnose that one
) blokes will get some distress for being even slightly off the beaten path (or even thinking about going there).
Your observation that the diagnosis does not apply to the "men in skirts movement" (whatever that may be) is on the money, although there is clearly a level of distress on the part of some of the folks here, be it innate stress or stress brought on through their interactions with people who are close and important to them. So, even though the formal diagnosis doesn't fit, there still exist problems. These may be in the minds of those involved (to use the medieval notion, "they do it to themselves"), or it may be legitimate pressure from loved ones that directly precipitates the stress. The underlyer in both of those situations, though, I believe, lies with the rather backward state of Western civilisation and the way it treats men in general.
One of the other requirements for the clinical diagnosis is that "sufferers" "have a desire to appear as the opposite sex". This is interesting because women have been outwardly trying to "appear" as the opposite sex (and behave in similar ways) for years; this was rather handily lampooned with the term "pen*s envy" (ruddy nanny-bots) and later with the fashion term "imitation man". So, it does cut both ways; it's just not recognised as such in the formal sense. Let's ask that meta-question, "Why?" again. It comes right back to what society perceives as normal and, as the converse, abnormal (ever notice that there's seldom any grey area?). So, somewhere along the line, one sex got to fiddle with the entire range of expression and the other became increasingly pigeonholed -- and stressed about it.
Your assertion of "men in skirts too often get mislabeled" is dead on the money and points up the level of ignorance, and intolerance, on the part of a goodly chunk of society. The meta-question here is, "How do we change that?". Sadly, I have no fast answer. So, I guess it's "one mind and heart at a time" -- if I live so long....
Cheers.
That would have been me taking a swipe at the DSM, not Lar -- and I certainly took no offence over the matter. I just don't have a lot of tolerance for things that do not approach things, whatever they may be, with an unjaundiced eye.bob striks wrote:I think I may have unintentionally touched a nerve with you Bravehart. I absolutely agree with you the narrow definitions given for transvestic fetishism are to narrow and discriminatory.
It is fact that the clinical diagnosis of transvestic fetishism requires that the condition "cause marked distress", but the meta-queation that the manual fails to ask is, "Why does it cause such distress?". Down that road is where the larger answer lies, and I suspect the reason that the distress is present relates to the fact that modern western societies shackle men into straitjackets that aren't applied equally to women, and that's decidedly medieval in its approach. So, given that, it's only natural that otherwise reasonably normal (yeah, go ahead and diagnose that one
) blokes will get some distress for being even slightly off the beaten path (or even thinking about going there).Your observation that the diagnosis does not apply to the "men in skirts movement" (whatever that may be) is on the money, although there is clearly a level of distress on the part of some of the folks here, be it innate stress or stress brought on through their interactions with people who are close and important to them. So, even though the formal diagnosis doesn't fit, there still exist problems. These may be in the minds of those involved (to use the medieval notion, "they do it to themselves"), or it may be legitimate pressure from loved ones that directly precipitates the stress. The underlyer in both of those situations, though, I believe, lies with the rather backward state of Western civilisation and the way it treats men in general.
One of the other requirements for the clinical diagnosis is that "sufferers" "have a desire to appear as the opposite sex". This is interesting because women have been outwardly trying to "appear" as the opposite sex (and behave in similar ways) for years; this was rather handily lampooned with the term "pen*s envy" (ruddy nanny-bots) and later with the fashion term "imitation man". So, it does cut both ways; it's just not recognised as such in the formal sense. Let's ask that meta-question, "Why?" again. It comes right back to what society perceives as normal and, as the converse, abnormal (ever notice that there's seldom any grey area?). So, somewhere along the line, one sex got to fiddle with the entire range of expression and the other became increasingly pigeonholed -- and stressed about it.
Your assertion of "men in skirts too often get mislabeled" is dead on the money and points up the level of ignorance, and intolerance, on the part of a goodly chunk of society. The meta-question here is, "How do we change that?". Sadly, I have no fast answer. So, I guess it's "one mind and heart at a time" -- if I live so long....
Cheers.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!
What I think most men who don a skirt, or maybe even a dress, have in common is a feeling of relaxation and rightness when they do so. It is difficult to identify a single reason. I think part of it is a need to retreat sometimes from the need to compete with other men, or to take a break from being treated robustly as we men treat each other. I also know that, despite being both straight and married, I also have a more-than-average feminine streak. I did not experience wearing a skirt until I was in my 30s and sometimes wonder wistfully about what I missed when younger.