Urban has gone gender inclusive

[steamman]

This is huge:

https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/en-gb/e ... -jumpsuits

It sends a big signal to the rest of the fashion industry.

[Jim]

I notice they have an inclusive statement, but the models on the referenced page all looked like females at first glance.

[steamman]

Yes, the models are female, but that doesn’t really matter. It’s the intent that matters. It signals an incredibly important point to men: permission. That should not be underestimated.

[Mouse]

You can now get to skirts from the inclusive "everyone" tab. And when you select a skirt, the tile of the skirt never has the word "woman". However the tab and the website link will show that you are now under the "woman's" tab. But when you return to search, you are back in the "everyone" tab.

So I am stoked with the "everyone" tab and statement, but the website coders have done what you would expect to get the system up and running. It will be interesting to see how this rolls out if the future and especially in the high street stores.

I have log in to their system and now have a 10% off discount code. My problem is that none of their skirts are floating my boat to the extent of their cost. I did like one skirt, £75 is too much to me, at the moment.

[steamman]

You can now get to skirts from the inclusive "everyone" tab. And when you select a skirt, the tile of the skirt never has the word "woman". However the tab and the website link will show that you are now under the "woman's" tab. But when you return to search, you are back in the "everyone" tab.

So I am stoked with the "everyone" tab and statement, but the website coders have done what you would expect to get the system up and running. It will be interesting to see how this rolls out if the future and especially in the high street stores.

I have log in to their system and now have a 10% off discount code. My problem is that none of their skirts are floating my boat to the extent of their cost. I did like one skirt, £75 is too much to me, at the moment.

Yes. It’s not perfect, but it’s a very important step forward. I also understand that structurally, these businesses are still tied to the binary and changing has to be incremental. But urban have realised here that cutting off half of your potential customers is sheer idiocy! I am thinking that urban are the first reasonable sized retailer to do this. It will be fascinating to see how other retailers now respond. The risk they carry with not making the change is that they will of a sudden look outdated. Let’s face it: for an online retailer, changing a website is straightforward. The bigger challenge will be sorting out sizing to a body measurement system. That’s going to be next.

[Pleats]

The other problem is "everyone" is only on the UK site. I am in the USA. I was prompted to go to the site serving my location. No "everyone" in the menu. One of the skirts I looked at via the "everyone" link took me to a very short mini. Back to the appropriate site for my location, I went to the women's tab to see if I could find the same skirt. Nope, not there. Picking a random skirt I noticed the size chart was the same I found on the other skirt. It listed larger sizes. The particular skirt I was looking at only went up to XL. I think the other had XXL.

I normally can do a size 14 but looking at their size chart I would need to go to the next one up.

[FranTastic444]

Pleats beat me to it. I also ended up on the US site which is still very binary, unfortunately.

Interesting to see that they make use of a model with a prosthetic leg. Like the skirt, but it is the jacket that is being sold here. Edited to add that you need to scroll through a few pictures before you get to the one that I was referring to.

On their culture link, they have some interesting articles.

It would be great if the page where customers show of their outfits included some content that was outside of gender norms - nothing I could see. Amazon is still the best place to find such pics, I think.

[Barleymower]

I was hoping to be positive but here I am pouring cold water on the statement.
It suffices ro say that their inclusivity is aimed at women not men. If it did they would include men in the line up.

[STEVIE]

This is huge:
https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/en-gb/e ... -jumpsuits
It sends a big signal to the rest of the fashion industry.

One huge problem Steamman, this has all been done before.
Adidas, EMP, H&M and Zara off the top of my head have all sent that "big signal" in the past.
Regrettably it wasn't acknowledged then and there's nothing UO has done to make me think differently now.
Fundamentally, one question, what on that site would make no skirt for me Norman Normal reconsider and think, ooh I want to feel the air down there?
Once again I'd like to be proved wrong but somehow....................?
Another thing, if "everyone" really means that they should dispense with the gender categories and sell clothes.
I bet that will never happen.
Steve.

[robehickman]

This is huge:

https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/en-gb/e ... -jumpsuits

It sends a big signal to the rest of the fashion industry.

Most of the things they have under this 'everyone' tab are designed to accommodate / accentuate female breasts and emphasise a female figure. Anything designed like that will look weird on a male body.

There are a few things that could work, like: https://www.urbanoutfitters.com/en-gb/s ... pe=REGULAR

[steamman]

What I find astonishing on this group is the negativity displayed.

This is significant. Is it absolutely perfect what they have done? No. But it’s signalling intent and it’s an important step in the right direction. The end game isn’t men’s skirts, it’s just skirts. For anyone.

Fashion has to restructure its entire business from start to finish away from the gender binary and that’s not a trivial exercise at all. It’s going to move to an AI based body shape and measurement based system and gender quietly becomes irrelevant. It’s inevitable. Why? Because gender is a terrible proxy for body shapes and it’s grossly inefficient, illustrated by sky hihh high return rates. It’s not sustainable and the first brand to properly degender will win hugely. Fashion will not do this because they are sympathetic to men, they’ll do this because of cold, hard economics. Efficiency will win.

But these things happen in stages and urban is making an initial move. Others will follow.

[crfriend]

What I find astonishing on this group is the negativity displayed.

I'd not call it "negativity", but rather cynicism because we've all seen this before in various guises -- and in precisely none of those guises was it targeted to men or advanced men's position in the problem. It's just more of the same "unisex" faff that's been butching women up for decades, all the while maintaining the same cofffin-sized box for men.

Lots of us here have made several tens of orbits of the Sun, and each and every time this notion arises it's always been the same thing. Hence the cynicism. We've all seen this silliness too many times before and are wiser for it so we don't get our hopes up.

But these things happen in stages and urban is making an initial move. Others will follow.

I can state with some certainty that it WILL NOT happen in the modern USA. Perhaps -- just perhaps -- in the first world.

[Mouse]

I think we have to be real. Some of UOs customers are traditional men and women, who just want to get to appropriate trousers and put them in their basket and hit buy. UO have to be careful that they are adding customers by this inclusive move, while not loosing their current customers. I applaud them and would buy from them if I could find something I liked at a price I am happy to pay. If nothing else, they are on my radar and will now send me discounts and offers, as do a host of other clothing companies.

[Barleymower]

I think we have to be real. Some of UOs customers are traditional men and women, who just want to get to appropriate trousers and put them in their basket and hit buy. UO have to be careful that they are adding customers by this inclusive move, while not loosing their current customers. I applaud them and would buy from them if I could find something I liked at a price I am happy to pay. If nothing else, they are on my radar and will now send me discounts and offers, as do a host of other clothing companies.

I don't think we should make excuses for them. If they are going to make a difference, they need to put themselves out there. Are they doing that with what they have done? I would say they have made some noises.

[steamman]

I think we have to be real. Some of UOs customers are traditional men and women, who just want to get to appropriate trousers and put them in their basket and hit buy. UO have to be careful that they are adding customers by this inclusive move, while not loosing their current customers. I applaud them and would buy from them if I could find something I liked at a price I am happy to pay. If nothing else, they are on my radar and will now send me discounts and offers, as do a host of other clothing companies.

I don't think we should make excuses for them. If they are going to make a difference, they need to put themselves out there. Are they doing that with what they have done? I would say they have made some noises.

What do you actually want then?

There is one direction of travel where they offer separate men’s skirts and dresses. I personally think that’s wrong as it just builds new silos. Where they are starting to go is towards skirts and dresses for everyone, and that to me is correct because clothes are just clothes, they have no actual gender. The biggest problem that fashion needs to now solve is fit, because it’s based on ancient and totally imperfect assumptions. Fortunately, AI can help and will be next to come.

Businesses will take calculated risks when the maths tells them and they clearly believe that the UK and EU is culturally ready for this. The US is behind and that’s why they haven’t rolled it out there yet.

I am more interested to see what other retailers now do in response to the move made by urban. If they do nothing, they look outdated to Gen Z and Alpha.