Son gives up skirts, daughter in combats and dress that became a pencil skirt

[Myopic Bookworm]

My elder son announced that he was non-binary when he was about 16 and a half, and started growing his hair long. We spoke to the school, and he experimented with wearing a skirt in school and using a non-gendered bathroom. But he was not bothered about pronouns, and kept the same teenager hoodie and jeans kit when out of school. An experiment with casual skirts seems to have been abandoned, and he didn't seem interested in clothing generally. (He did suggest an alternative preferred name, but that was so clearly female-marked rather than gender-neutral that I'm afraid we more or less recoiled from the idea.)

Now at university, he has (without telling us) started trying out entry-level gender-affirming hormones. I have absolutely no idea what he normally wears, as he has always defaulted to the jeans and hoodie when we see him, and I don't know how open he is about his non-binary identity at college. Or whether that is a stepping-stone to coming out as fully trans, which would be a challenge, but he's technically an adult so we'll go with it if necessary.

[SatinDea]

Myopic Bookworm - your post resonates with me. What you said is almost exactly where my son was when at University. He just wears jeans and a hoody when he meets me and his mum but he has long hair, painted nails, female earrings and has looked at gender changing processes, how to do it, how long it will take and what it might cost. He has just graduated from Uni and got his first job. He is nearly 30 years old. His University friend, who a few years ago I would have said was a young man is “she” and she is going through the process now. We have spoken to our son about him being fully trans and he is up for whatever that might involve.

I’ve never seen him in a skirt or female clothing. I’ve joked about me wearing a skirt and he just said “go for it” I’ve told him that I wear tights and want to wear skirts. He is ok with that . I have been pretty regimented as he has grown up and I wanted to show him I’ve changed and a little bit more towards his way of thinking. However he speaks a different language to me. It’s hard on his mum and thats making my own adoption of female clothing more difficult. But I think it’s a new world out there for our boys and us if they choose a difficult path I will support my son as much as I can.

[crfriend]

[...] your post resonates with me. What you said is almost exactly where my son was when at University. He just wears jeans and a hoody when he meets me and his mum but he has long hair, painted nails,[...]

Attribution deliberately left out as this is starting to look like a universal issue.

What has happened to Occam's Razor -- a theory which states that the simplest answer to a problem is likely the probable one? Why do we insist on ascribing what might be a simple stylistic choice or a rebellion against the drabness of male fashion to sexual deviancy? Why do we perpetuate the views of the Charlie Kirk world? It's not doing anybody any good.

Sure, there may be complex underlying reasons, but what happens if it's actually simple? Do we need to condemn the person in question to future trouble? I posit no, and have done so for many years.

Or am I just one lone voice crying in the wilderness? If so, I can deal with that. I hold many "unpopular" opinions, what's one more?

Do we really want to cement the "Father Knows Best" mentality that only women wear skirts (they don't and haven't for years)? That any man who strays more than 0.5 degrees from the centreline of opinion is a deviant? That anybody who rebels against arbitrary and capricious "rules" is sick? Really? Is that what we want? If so, then let's keep on that path, look down, and plod forward like pack animals -- for that's what we are in that mode. I'd hope better.

Recall the wisdom from the 1960s -- "Question Authority." -- now seemingly long forgotten. We need to revive that. Diversity of viewpoint and attitude is important for a society's health; we seem to be sacrificing that over memes from the past. Resist. Else we're going to become Mao's China.

[Myopic Bookworm]

I think you are misreading. The issue for some is not that skirts imply femininity, homosexuality, or deviancy, but that young people who are questioning their gender identity do *not* seem naturally to regard wearing skirts as a part of that. (And why should they, since many of the girls wear jeans and hoodies too?)

[crfriend]

I think you are misreading. The issue for some is not that skirts imply femininity, homosexuality, or deviancy, but that young people who are questioning their gender identity do *not* seem naturally to regard wearing skirts as a part of that. (And why should they, since many of the girls wear jeans and hoodies too?)

However, bearing in mind that current "thinking" has formed the absolute and unequivocal conclusion that skirt==female inevitably contaminates the issue and that the use of skirts by the trans-* crowd as a signifier further contaminates the perception problem only amplifies the problem when it comes to the (rather uninformed) masses when it comes to guys. No matter which way we turn we lose.

Is it any wonder that most abandon any such thoughts long before deciding on executing (which, itself, can be traumatic as evidenced by some of the stories here). Most, I'd posit never dare take that first step that has terrified most of us.

[Barleymower]

My elder son announced that he was non-binary when he was about 16 and a half, and started growing his hair long. We spoke to the school, and he experimented with wearing a skirt in school and using a non-gendered bathroom. But he was not bothered about pronouns, and kept the same teenager hoodie and jeans kit when out of school. An experiment with casual skirts seems to have been abandoned, and he didn't seem interested in clothing generally. (He did suggest an alternative preferred name, but that was so clearly female-marked rather than gender-neutral that I'm afraid we more or less recoiled from the idea.)

Now at university, he has (without telling us) started trying out entry-level gender-affirming hormones. I have absolutely no idea what he normally wears, as he has always defaulted to the jeans and hoodie when we see him, and I don't know how open he is about his non-binary identity at college. Or whether that is a stepping-stone to coming out as fully trans, which would be a challenge, but he's technically an adult so we'll go with it if necessary.

I have no wish to pry MB but if it were me I would keep trying to talk to him and be supportive of his life choices. If I can persuade him that I'm on his side, I might have some chance of having some influence.

[Jim]

However, bearing in mind that current "thinking" has formed the absolute and unequivocal conclusion that skirt==female inevitably contaminates the issue and that the use of skirts by the trans-* crowd as a signifier further contaminates the perception problem only amplifies the problem when it comes to the (rather uninformed) masses when it comes to guys. No matter which way we turn we lose.

I don't recall any interaction with a man that indicated that he thought me feminine, even though I'm almost always in a skirt or dress.

I think women have been a bit more open in talking with me about clothing or female medical issues than I remember from my pre-skirt days.

[crfriend]

I don't recall any interaction with a man that indicated that he thought me feminine, even though I'm almost always in a skirt or dress.

That's because of the interaction, which overrides a passive observation. I'll bet that you weren't behaving in a feminine manner (women don't any more, anyway) and I'll bet you that you were using your normal male voice. Actions really do "speak louder than words", and that's one of the reasons I encourage honesty and simply "getting out there" to prove the point and disrupt the stereotype. The more the skirt==female prototype gets scrambled the easier leaving the front door becomes for all of us.

I think women have been a bit more open in talking with me about clothing or female medical issues than I remember from my pre-skirt days.

I suspect they're a bit disarmed by the notion of a man in a skirt, and may be curious about what makes you "tick". I've run into that a large number of times, and I am definitely approached vastly more often when I'm wearing a skirt than if I'm in standard male drab. I consider this a win, even though I know I don't have a snowball's chance of a deep relationship.