Stop Assuming Biological Male in Skirt = MIS (They're probably pre-op transwomen)

[TSH]

Umm... No.

Really it doesn't matter. If a guy is going around in a skirt, with no other visible signals that he is trans, he's just a guy in a skirt to anyone who sees him, unless they talk to him and he says, "no, actually I'm trans." At that point the difference is basically linguistic.

It's this sort of thinking, that any guy who does a single thing that could be coded female by society is automatically trans, gay, or whatever, that led to this absurdly small "man box" of acceptable male behavior in the first place.

I actually didn't catch this at first, but this is a really good response, and one that I echoed in my own post. Some assumptions are warranted, and some aren't. The ones used towards MiS aren't.

If we see a woman in a skirt we don't ask about her gender identity or motivation for wearing a skirt. Even if she was dressed in a man's tuxedo, we may find it odd but we wouldn't question her. And so it should be with men. We can wear skirts with no questions asked. When I'm occasionally asked why I'm wearing a skirt my simple answer is because I want to. I'm hetero cis gender but I don't need to explain that to anyone.

I think people overestimate how much women get away without assumptions. I had a good friend in college who had a buzz cut. Everyone assumed she was a lesbian(she wasn't). Yes, women wear trousers, but the cut and detail of them is coded feminine. When women actually wear men's pants, they are also assumed to be lesbian. Even suits, if a woman wore a suit that was tailored like a man's, most would make some kind of assumptions.

A few things I need to clear up here, as I have plenty to say about this. Firstly, unisex pants are also tailored and can be found among many clothing stores. Pants, themselves, can also blur the lines of masculine/feminine — to the point that some people can't tell if a pair designed for men is so if a woman wears it. These two phenomena don't come as easily with skirts. Secondly, while the lack of perceived notions directed at women might be somewhat embellished, let's not pretend that women don't get away with far more than men do, especially when it comes to things like this.

We do it all the time, even if you don't intend to. At the end of the day, if you think there's nothing wrong with being gay or trans, why is it a problem if people speculate whether you're gay or trans?

We do this all the time because it was a part of our survival as a species and what kept members of a tribe from being excluded. Also, you're proposing the wrong question here. The problem isn't people assuming your sexuality or gender identity, or even that there's anything wrong with being gay or trans, but how people go about this without any basis or merit to those assumptions. Gay men don't wear skirts, so why would you assume a guy in one is gay? Because skirts are "feminine", and gay men are like that, too, even if statistics show that gay men prefer masculinity over femininity? That's ridiculous. Now, there's actually a small bit of justification for the "trans" notion, but how someone identifies themselves is quite frankly, still no one else's business. That's the real problem, not that there's any shame in being gay or transgender.

[AnonUser30]

First, I agree that women get away with more than men. But, I think a lot of men aren't fully aware of how much slut shaming and social pushback women get for certain items of clothing. As you of course know, women have been campaigning for fashion freedom for over 100 years. Many brave women faced jail time and serious social ostracization on the path to where they've ended up now. Men will also have to endure some discomfort as well if we want the same level of fashion freedom.

Second, You're correct of course that gay men largely don't wear skirts. To me that's besides the point. Trying to control the assumptions other people make about you is a fool's errand. Speaking just for myself, a lot of my anxiety about wearing skirts in public went away once I started working on tackling my own internalized homophobia and transphobia. I.E. I was worried about people assuming I'm gay because I still felt being straight was better. Now, I still have some anxiety because I recognize how homosexuality and transgender identities are still very much stigmatized by the wider culture. By wearing a skirt, I'm potentially taking on some of that stigma, but I also like to think I'm helping combat it a little bit too.

This is drifting from the main point of the thread. If you meet someone and you're not sure if they're a man in a skirt or a bricky trans woman, you can always just ask their pronouns. It's really not a big deal.