Men in skirts and contra dance

[robehickman]

It seems to be very common and widely accepted for men* to dance in skirts within the American contra dance community. I suspect that this is just a matter of practicality overruling gender norms, as contra is full of spinning and dancing in a skirt adds a lot to one's enjoyment, and the overall appearance of the dance.

* (within which I'm surely including AMAB trans / non binary identifying people as it's impossible to differentiate from video evidence).

What I'm interested in though and unsure about is exactly when this practice started, and how it spread. It seems to have been a thing for a long time, the following video was posted 6 years ago but apparently was filmed in 2011 and features quite a number of men dancing in flowy skirts. It is very hard to see how many due to the size of the dance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyhl89yGMFA

Another dance, same band, similar time period, has men in flowy skirts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KevQxr-saFw

And basically, you can just search 'contra dance' on YouTube and pretty much any video you watch is going to have at least one male dancer in a skirt.

I'm friends with a contra caller and she has said that this has been going on since around 2000, if not longer, although there's very little written record and it seems to be mainly a USA thing. Within the UK contra community, there are also male skirt wearing dancers but it varies a lot from dance to dance. At one dance I was at in Bristol, something like a quarter to half of male dancers were in skirts / kilts. At folk festivals the number has been far lower.

I have not been able to find any serious studies into it as an isolated phenomenon, though the following paper addresses man in skirts within the context of clothing generally. It was published in 2004: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4137718

There are films of contras from the 50's ish on youtube with typical clothing in effect, so the skirts thing seems to have started sometime between then and the early 2000's.

I ran a basic survey of contra dancers asking about people's skirt preferences, which has some interesting insights: https://robehickman.com/skirts-study-contra-dance

[timemeddler]

looking at the pie chart seems for every 11.6 women in a skirt there's one male? I'd call that fairly good. I've been working to introduce the concept into square dancing. I don't think anyone's seen me in pants for nearly a year at our club or any of the other local ones. Some of the older members told me there's some called known to occasionally wear a kilt.

The real trick seems to be getting men to try square dancing to begin with. the latest round of new dancers that showed up for lessons this round was 3, all women, none of which stayed for more than one lesson. Ask other dancers why, they say it because people think it's still old fashioned. I've asked a few people why they won't and that's never the reason.

Of course if the clubs want to modernize they might want to think beyond updating the music from the 19th century.

[robehickman]

looking at the pie chart seems for every 11.6 women in a skirt there's one male? I'd call that fairly good. I've been working to introduce the concept into square dancing. I don't think anyone's seen me in pants for nearly a year at our club or any of the other local ones. Some of the older members told me there's some called known to occasionally wear a kilt.

The real trick seems to be getting men to try square dancing to begin with. the latest round of new dancers that showed up for lessons this round was 3, all women, none of which stayed for more than one lesson. Ask other dancers why, they say it because people think it's still old fashioned. I've asked a few people why they won't and that's never the reason.

Of course if the clubs want to modernize they might want to think beyond updating the music from the 19th century.

It certainly isn't a bad state of affairs if the data is representative of reality, but I also suspect the results are skewed because kilts make up an extremely small portion of the responses. I often see people wearing them in person - there were a good number of kilt wearing males at Sidmouth folk festival this year for example.

I hope that your introducing skirts into square dancing works out, and something that may help would be to buy a bunch of them at charity shops (I think they are called thrift stores in the US?), and make them available at dances as a 'skirt library' - I've heard that this has worked well in the contra community. Organising an 'everyone in skirts' dance may also be worth consideration.

Generally modernising it sounds like a good idea, and contra dances with electronic music seem to have become popular. The weirdest music set I've come across so far is a dance from IVFDF consisting of a set of pop song melodies and 'nyan cat'. Possibly the need to take lessons to learn square dancing is putting people off as well? What were the reasons that you found people were being put off in the group you've asked so far?

I think part of the problem with getting men to wear skirts is just information because they aren't socialised to wear them. There are so many different kinds of skirts available: A lines, circle, gathered, pleated, tired, gore / godet, plus the huge number of material types and thicknesses available, and skirts of different lengths, and how to find dresses that fit if one wants to go that path. Unless someone has an idea what they are looking at, it's hard to know how to find one that will work well for dancing.

I've been writing a gender neutral guide to skirts for contra dance to try to help with this, and the youtuber 'snappy dragon' in her video on mens skirts, mentioned running a workshop which I think contained similar information a dance festival. Workshops are going to be needed until the information becomes more mainstream.

[Damon]

[It certainly isn't a bad state of affairs if the data is representative of reality, but I also suspect the results are skewed because kilts make up an extremely small portion of the responses. I often see people wearing them in person - there were a good number of kilt wearing males at Sidmouth folk festival this year for example.]

There's probably a significant number of men who wear kilts who would not describe that as wearing a skirt.

[robehickman]

[It certainly isn't a bad state of affairs if the data is representative of reality, but I also suspect the results are skewed because kilts make up an extremely small portion of the responses. I often see people wearing them in person - there were a good number of kilt wearing males at Sidmouth folk festival this year for example.]

There's probably a significant number of men who wear kilts who would not describe that as wearing a skirt.

That's true and I noted it in the write-up of the results of the survey I ran. Personally I classify the kilt as a kind of pleated wrap skirt, but many people would define it as a separate thing, mainly it seems to distance themselves from appearing feminine due to cultural associations.

[Mouse]

Personally I classify the kilt as a kind of pleated wrap skirt, but many people would define it as a separate thing, mainly it seems to distance themselves from appearing feminine due to cultural associations.

It also works the other way, as what ever skirt I wear, people assume it is a kilt since a man, me is wearing it, and they do not want to offend me.

[robehickman]

Weather or not it makes sense to differentiate between the words 'kilt' and 'skirt' to me comes down to 'does making that distinction communicate anything useful?

Generally:

- 'Kilt' is used to refer to a kind of wrapped lower garment with an apron in the front and pleats, usually knife pleats, around the sides and rear. They are derived from an earlier garment, where a rectangular blanket / cloak was pleated on the ground, and belted around the waist, and evolved to have the upper section removed and pleats sewn in for convenience.

- 'Skirt' in mainstream usage seems to refer to any garment for the lower body that covers both legs within a single tube of fabric, and many different kinds of them exist, including that the term is also used to name the lower part of dresses, robes and gowns, which may be attached to an upper 'bodice', or where the upper and lower parts are cut from a single piece of material. 'Skirt' has been widely used to name the versions of these garments worn by women in western fashion up untill the 1950's or so, but there is also a lot of precedent for agendered use of the term, and there is a wikipedia article on 'mens skirts'.

If one is referring to the kilt as a general family, that is garments that follow the design of a wrap garment with a front apron and rear pleats, calling it a 'kilt' communicates something useful, because the person can visualise this vague family of garments, assuming they are familiar with them.

Using the term 'kilt' to name any skirt worn by a male would, to me, make the word much less valuable for communication, when 'skirt' already exists and is widely used as a catch all. Its rather a 'senseless semantic argument'.

For me personally, I'd call what I wear for dancing 'skirts', as do all of the people who have said 'I love your skirt' to me at various dance events, nobody has ever called it a kilt. They fall into the categories of circle and godet skirts.

Personally I'm less drawn to kilts because other designs have more interesting movement, which is the main thing I'm wearing one for. I also find the whole of the political argument around kilt tartans and clan associations off-putting, and am not very fond of tartan patterns in general.

I agree with snappy dragon's argument of 'frock the idea that a certain kind of clothing says anything about one's gender'.

[Charlie]

It also works the other way, as what ever skirt I wear, people assume it is a kilt since a man, me is wearing it, and they do not want to offend me.

Twice in the past two weeks I've been asked if the denim knee-length skirt I was wearing is a kilt. One was a German monk over from a monastery in Wales (trying to flog meditation as a way to inner happiness - I've achieved that by skirt wearing ) and the other was the husband of an American caller over for the contra week at Halsway Manor (he told me he wears skirts for dancing in the States, and will be packing some when they return in 2026).
I'm up front now, and tell them its a skirt. The conversation often flows from that.
Charlie

[Mouse]

Twice in the past two weeks I've been asked if the denim knee-length skirt I was wearing is a kilt................I'm up front now, and tell them it's a skirt. The conversation often flows from that.
Charlie

I am the same. I smile and point out that it is just a skirt. They then smile back, and usually an interesting conversation is shared.

[robehickman]

It also works the other way, as what ever skirt I wear, people assume it is a kilt since a man, me is wearing it, and they do not want to offend me.

Twice in the past two weeks I've been asked if the denim knee-length skirt I was wearing is a kilt. One was a German monk over from a monastery in Wales (trying to flog meditation as a way to inner happiness - I've achieved that by skirt wearing ) and the other was the husband of an American caller over for the contra week at Halsway Manor (he told me he wears skirts for dancing in the States, and will be packing some when they return in 2026).
I'm up front now, and tell them its a skirt. The conversation often flows from that.
Charlie

Was that the partner of the American caller who was at Alcester on the 4th of October? If so he taught me some spin flourishes and wasn't phased by me wearing a skirt. Nobody said anything negative but I got the feeling that guys wearing twirly skirts isn't common at Alcester.

[STEVIE]

Hi RH,
A question, not a criticism, but on this subject, I am very sceptical about seeing it as any real evidence of progress for men in skirts.
Please correct me if I am wrong!
In your original survey, out of 140 respondents, approximately 12 stated they were male?
I see some responses came from abroad, but let's assume those guys are British residents, have you any idea how many are Scots, or dancing in Scotland?
My problem is that Contra dancing seems to be, very much a minority niche pastime, more so in Scotland than England.
Up here, ceilidh and the more formal Scottish Country Dance holds greatest sway, which certainly has a distinct bearing on the male costume of choice.
Now, back to those 12 brave guys.
Are their swirly twirly skirts contra dance costumery or habitual wear?
For the Kilties, I'd put my money on costumery/special occasion wear.
Outside your terms of reference, but the greatest number of guys in skirts or kilts at a single contra dance event?
The accepted wisdom around here is approximately 15 at "The Million Men March" in 2004.
Hardly cause for optimism.
Steve.

[Charlie]

Was that the partner of the American caller who was at Alcester on the 4th of October? If so he taught me some spin flourishes and wasn't phased by me wearing a skirt. Nobody said anything negative but I got the feeling that guys wearing twirly skirts isn't common at Alcester.

Yes, it was. They cut short their tour to get back to Ashville USA to see how their house was after the hurricane. From what they were saying, they were one of the lucky ones that didn't suffer too much damage,
At Halsway Manor she taught us some spin flourishes, notably the one in the hey where you both grab the other's waist and spin out to the side.
I always wear a twirly skirt for dancing these days, including Alcester. No-one says anything (except for the occasional compliment from the ladies ).
Charlie

[robehickman]

Hi RH,
A question, not a criticism, but on this subject, I am very sceptical about seeing it as any real evidence of progress for men in skirts.
Please correct me if I am wrong!
In your original survey, out of 140 respondents, approximately 12 stated they were male?
I see some responses came from abroad, but let's assume those guys are British residents, have you any idea how many are Scots, or dancing in Scotland?
My problem is that Contra dancing seems to be, very much a minority niche pastime, more so in Scotland than England.
Up here, ceilidh and the more formal Scottish Country Dance holds greatest sway, which certainly has a distinct bearing on the male costume of choice.
Now, back to those 12 brave guys.
Are their swirly twirly skirts contra dance costumery or habitual wear?
For the Kilties, I'd put my money on costumery/special occasion wear.
Outside your terms of reference, but the greatest number of guys in skirts or kilts at a single contra dance event?
The accepted wisdom around here is approximately 15 at "The Million Men March" in 2004.
Hardly cause for optimism.
Steve.

Hi Steve,

My intention here was not to draw comparison to male skirts in the general public, but to point out that there is a niche community where this has been an ongoing 'thing' for a considerable period of time. I have no idea how many of the respondents are Scottish as I did not ask for precise geographic information - as that would be breaching privacy. The raw data is available on my website if you wish to see if you can find any patterns in it I did not notice / look for.

From my observations of a considerable number of videos of contra dances, most males in skirts are wearing off the shelf woman's skirts and most of them seem to be thrifted or similar, by people that don't appear to know much about what makes a good dance skirt, or for that matter, how to put together a visually consistent outfit. By and large they aren't very full - although the same can be said for most of the skirts / dresses that the women are wearing.

It is very easy with a small amount of knowledge to 'out skirt' everyone in a given dance. For example, there is a woman in the following dance in a blue skirt that moves very dramatically, making her stand out clearly against all the other dancers:

https://youtu.be/Y6y_aWXcY58?feature=shared&t=282

And this apparent lack of knowledge among dancers is why I and my friend wrote a guide on it:

https://robehickman.com/gender-neutral-skirts-contra

I would say that the men dancing in skirts / kilts only wear them for dancing, however it is is worth mentioning on this point that the sources I have say that *most of the women only wear skirts for dance, and other special events too*.

People who opt to wear very full 'dramatic' skirts to contra dances probably do not wear the same skirts day to day irrespective of if they are male or female, because they are wildly impractical. They are very revealing because they fly up high when one turns remotely quickly, and thus also risk knocking things off tables. Full skirts are also a total nightmare to deal with in any moderate amount of wind.

Was that the partner of the American caller who was at Alcester on the 4th of October? If so he taught me some spin flourishes and wasn't phased by me wearing a skirt. Nobody said anything negative but I got the feeling that guys wearing twirly skirts isn't common at Alcester.

Yes, it was. They cut short their tour to get back to Ashville USA to see how their house was after the hurricane. From what they were saying, they were one of the lucky ones that didn't suffer too much damage,
At Halsway Manor she taught us some spin flourishes, notably the one in the hey where you both grab the other's waist and spin out to the side.
I always wear a twirly skirt for dancing these days, including Alcester. No-one says anything (except for the occasional compliment from the ladies ).
Charlie

I'm glad that they didn't receive too much damage. I'd be interested if yourself or anyone else involved in the Bristol contra would be open to teaching and practising flourishes before the dance. There's loads of them on the 'contrasyncratyst' youtube channel.