Why has long hair been mainstreamed for men while skirts haven't?

[JohnH]

Why is anybody even worrying about this at this point? Why? Why hasn't anybody noticed the complete departure of femininity from the landscape? Most women are now more butch than the men are -- and that's got to be causing some level of angst somewhere.

Isn't that the truth!
On Sunday mornings when I'm dressed en femme, I go the whole 9 yards, unlike the average trouser wearing short haired woman. My hair is beyond shouler length. I wear a dress, ear rings, makeup, heels, and nail varnish (polish). Very few women wear heels anymore, and few of them wear nail varnish. Do bear in mind I could do a fair imitation of George Zimmer, formerly of The Men's Wearhouse saying the following slogan "You're gonna like the way you look i guarantee it"
It's like it is becoming shameful for even women to be feminine. So as a man I rebel against the idea that it's shameful to have feminine traits.

John

[Myopic Bookworm]

Long hair, in many situations, can/is dangerous to the person.
If their hair is not properly managed, a few strands may get
entangled in production machinery.

This reminds me of the old Biblical moral warning against long hair for men. Absalom, son of David, was renowned for his good looks, and cut his hair only once a year (2 Samuel 14), so when he was captured and killed because his head got caught as he rode through the forest (2 Samuel 18), generations of Puritan Biblical interpreters spread the notion that he was (a) proud of his long hair and (b) punished by divine justice for his vanity because his long hair was the cause of his death. Neither of these interpretations is actually supported by the Biblical text...!

My son's school makes it clear that hair must be tied back in certain classes such as chemistry (and does not make gendered assumptions about the owner of the hair).

If anyone were to suggest that long hair in men indicates effeminacy or homosexulilty, I would cite King Charles II, who wore his hair fashionably long and was a notorious womanizer.

[Barleymower]

If anyone were to suggest that long hair in men indicates effeminacy or homosexulilty, I would cite King Charles II, who wore his hair fashionably long and was a notorious womanizer.

How can hair which a perfectly natural occurance be a sign of effeminacy?
Doesn't it all come down to socialisation? That is we conform to a set norms and ideologies of society. I have said that we should just ignore such nonsense. The reply was that without socialisation we have anarchy and the collapse of society. The irrefutable truth is these norms can be split into two camps:
1. Norms which directly affect people if not followed eg dont steal.
2. Norms that have no real basis which can and should be ignored. Eg wearing trousers or skirts.

[LiuBang]

Why hasn't anybody noticed the complete departure of femininity from the landscape?

Oh femininity hasn't disappeared, it's just changed sexes. I never really realized how prevalent femininity among men had gotten until I really lived full time outside of the Appalachian/southern culture.

I think men have become less masculine, and women perhaps a bit less feminine, but here in San Diego, women as a whole are still much more feminine than men as a whole.

[crfriend]

I think men have become less masculine, and women perhaps a bit less feminine, but here in San Diego, women as a whole are still much more feminine than men as a whole.

There's also the sheer size of the USA to recall in this case. San Diego likely has a very strong Mexican cultural influence, and "Latin" cultures tend to be very macho with strict distinctions between the sexes. I'm on the diagonal from San Diego in Massachusetts, and the women here are only somewhat distinguishable from the guys in hairstyles, clothes, and behaviours -- there's practically no difference, and that causes a fair bit of distress if one is seeking a romantic partner of the opposite sex.

True to form, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

[jamie001]

I think men have become less masculine, and women perhaps a bit less feminine, but here in San Diego, women as a whole are still much more feminine than men as a whole.

We need to stop worrying about the abstract concepts of masculine and feminine which have different meanings in different cultures and also change with the times. The number-one most important thing to remember is to be true to yourself. Always be yourself regarding your personal expression and clothing that you wear as part of that expression. Don’t let anyone or any stereotypical concepts force you into a box of gender conformance unless that is your thing. The Man-Box needs to be eliminated but before that can happen we need to acknowledge that men and women are really equals. We also need to acknowledge that just because you are a man, you do not need to be masculine, and if you are a woman, you do not need to be feminine. You need to be true unapologetically true to yourself. Masculine and feminine stereotypes is one of the main reasons that men are so emotionally troubled because they believe that they always have to prove their masculinity. Women do not suffer from this problem, because they are taught to be true to themselves and embrace masculine and feminine. It doesn’t matter to them and they don’t even think about it. Women are allowed to “just be”. Most men are taught that they need to prove their fragile masculinity on a daily basis.

[JohnH]

I think men have become less masculine, and women perhaps a bit less feminine, but here in San Diego, women as a whole are still much more feminine than men as a whole.

There's also the sheer size of the USA to recall in this case. San Diego likely has a very strong Mexican cultural influence, and "Latin" cultures tend to be very macho with strict distinctions between the sexes. I'm on the diagonal from San Diego in Massachusetts, and the women here are only somewhat distinguishable from the guys in hairstyles, clothes, and behaviours -- there's practically no difference, and that causes a fair bit of distress if one is seeking a romantic partner of the opposite sex.

True to form, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

I have not had any problems with wearing dresses around Hispanic men. I guess they read me as a woman despite my impossibly deep voice outside the range of a woman. When I was looking for dry ice after I parked in a parking lot outside the store some Hispanic man came up to me and asked, "Ma'am, can I show you where to go?"

Needless to say I don't make any effort to prove my masculinity. My deep voice is quite sufficient.

John

[just_me]

jamie001 hat geschrieben:
> [quote=LiuBang post_id=260475 time=1717768066 user_id=49024]
> I think men have become less masculine, and women perhaps a bit less
> feminine, but here in San Diego, women as a whole are still much more
> feminine than men as a whole.
> [/quote]
>
> We need to stop worrying about the abstract concepts of masculine and
> feminine which have different meanings in different cultures and also
> change with the times. The number-one most important thing to remember is
> to be true to yourself. Always be yourself regarding your personal
> expression and clothing that you wear as part of that expression. Don’t let
> anyone or any stereotypical concepts force you into a box of gender
> conformance unless that is your thing. The Man-Box needs to be eliminated
> but before that can happen we need to acknowledge that men and women are
> really equals. We also need to acknowledge that just because you are a man,
> you do not need to be masculine, and if you are a woman, you do not need to
> be feminine. You need to be true unapologetically true to yourself.
> Masculine and feminine stereotypes is one of the main reasons that men are
> so emotionally troubled because they believe that they always have to prove
> their masculinity. Women do not suffer from this problem, because they are
> taught to be true to themselves and embrace masculine and feminine. It
> doesn’t matter to them and they don’t even think about it. Women are
> allowed to “just be”. Most men are taught that they need to prove their
> fragile masculinity on a daily basis.

To me this looks like one of the core issues with modern western masculinity - plus many men try to define masculinity as non-femininity, meaning:
whanever something has been discovered by women they don't wear it any longer.

[jamie001]

To me this looks like one of the core issues with modern western masculinity - plus many men try to define masculinity as non-femininity, meaning:
whanever something has been discovered by women they don't wear it any longer.

Thank you for this response. It is 100 percent correct. When women start wearing an item that men wear, men typically abandon it because they will do anything to not appear feminine.

[Grok]

To me this looks like one of the core issues with modern western masculinity - plus many men try to define masculinity as non-femininity, meaning:
whanever something has been discovered by women they don't wear it any longer.

But now that women have borrowed just about everything from the male side of the aisle, there is nothing left to abandon. Men are simply stuck with the same dull/drab rubbish.

(Unless one embraces nudity! )

[crfriend]

(Unless one embraces nudity! )

Which may not be all that far-fetched if the current trend towards incarcerating all men keeps gaining speed. Nudity == "nothing to hide".

[LiuBang]

I think men have become less masculine, and women perhaps a bit less feminine, but here in San Diego, women as a whole are still much more feminine than men as a whole.

There's also the sheer size of the USA to recall in this case. San Diego likely has a very strong Mexican cultural influence, and "Latin" cultures tend to be very macho with strict distinctions between the sexes.

I live in a mostly non-Hispanic, left-leaning, white area of San Diego, and I still see tons of white women wear skirts in warmer weather.

[denimini]

Why? Because long hair started becoming fashionable on men in the 1960's and skirts on men hasn't even started to become fashionable yet. We have a long way to go if it ever does happen.
As a child I liked long hair before it was an accepted style and was sent home from school to get it cut on a few occasions. Probably today I would get sent home to get an inseam sewn in.

[Jim]

Probably today I would get sent home to get an inseam sewn in.

Couldn't you just make an inseam with a few safety pins?

[crfriend]

Denimini has a very good reason as to why, and it was the initial period of acceptance, and then traction gained to overcome the natural resistance (although there never really should have been because men have worn long hair for millennia).

Skirts, on the other hand, face a myriad of problems in their acceptance on guys. Right off the top of my head is that the moment a guy decides he's going to shove both legs down one pipe he's got to get placed on some damned "spectrum" of sexual deviancy. If this cannot be made to go away -- and soon -- the cause will be lost for at least two more human generations. Secondly -- and this is almost as important as the first -- are those who use skirts as a signifier of femininity. Now, whilst that might have been accurate 50 years ago (two human generations, imagine that) it is most certainly not now as women have largely abandoned the style -- thus leaving it "fair game".

Both of these idiotic memes play up every day, and if my grandparents were still alive I suspect they'd be having fits over my current style of adornment. Heck, they never got over my long hair. We need to see to it that the old thinking is abandoned in the manner that it needs to be -- we throw it over the side and help it sink.