Dua Lipa’s SNL performance featuring skirted male dancers

[Grok]

It occurred to me that I may have excessively pessimistic in some of my posts. Regarding the time scale for MIS catching on.

Maybe younger people are a bit more open minded than I anticipated. I am cautiously optimistic now.

[mr seamstress]

It occurred to me that I may have excessively pessimistic in some of my posts. Regarding the time scale for MIS catching on.

Maybe younger people are a bit more open minded than I anticipated. I am cautiously optimistic now.

How about Dua Lipa outselling Taylor 2:1 Radical Optimism?

https://www.billboard.com/music/music-n ... 235674129/

A lot been said about her music, but look at her current sales.

[crfriend]

It occurred to me that I may have excessively pessimistic in some of my posts. Regarding the time scale for MIS catching on.

No, I think you were quite on target. But not, perhaps, for the reasons you may have thought.

Maybe younger people are a bit more open minded than I anticipated. I am cautiously optimistic now.

I've oft said that we cannot expect change to come from the youngsters -- the change has to come from the already confident elders. The youngsters are too busy building their own worlds and characters to be really able to "think outside the box".

Crucially, until we can completely expunge the idiot linkage of "gender", sexuality, and identity from what amounts to a purely sartorial choice we will go precisely nowhere because no sane male is going to put up with constantly shoved into a "boxful of deviants" (which is the suggestion of "GNC", "Trans-*"
, and the like) -- and we've even seen that blow up in our faces recently here of all places where we darned well ought to know better. And all it takes is a tiny number of loud and shrill conspirators to destroy it for all of us.

Until we can get the point driven home that, "This is about adornment, folks. It's not a statement about anything else." we will never move forward.

[mr seamstress]

It occurred to me that I may have excessively pessimistic in some of my posts. Regarding the time scale for MIS catching on.

No, I think you were quite on target. But not, perhaps, for the reasons you may have thought.

Maybe younger people are a bit more open minded than I anticipated. I am cautiously optimistic now.

I've oft said that we cannot expect change to come from the youngsters -- the change has to come from the already confident elders. The youngsters are too busy building their own worlds and characters to be really able to "think outside the box".

Crucially, until we can completely expunge the idiot linkage of "gender", sexuality, and identity from what amounts to a purely sartorial choice we will go precisely nowhere because no sane male is going to put up with constantly shoved into a "boxful of deviants" (which is the suggestion of "GNC", "Trans-*"
, and the like) -- and we've even seen that blow up in our faces recently here of all places where we darned well ought to know better. And all it takes is a tiny number of loud and shrill conspirators to destroy it for all of us.

Until we can get the point driven home that, "This is about adornment, folks. It's not a statement about anything else." we will never move forward.

There is room for some optimism about younger generation in accepting men in skirts. As Lura on Dick Van Dike show wore nothing but pants in promoting pants for women. There are several reason why pants became mainstream for women.
Dua Lipa can be added as another ingredient that can make it work. There is news stories about the new younger generations accepting all clothes as being unisex. Why not give it a chance of two to three months of optimism and see what happens and see if there is any new lads wearing skirts, because of Dua Lipa?

[crfriend]

Dua Lipa can be added as another ingredient that can make it work. There is news stories about the new younger generations accepting all clothes as being unisex. Why not give it a chance of two to three months of optimism and see what happens and see if there is any new lads wearing skirts, because of Dua Lipa?

The rationale for my hesitation is contained in the second paragraph -- and that's down the the fact that the younger set is still trying to "find its feet" and is also preoccupied with finding a partner. They're also not as confident in their capabilities as the elders who have already been around the block a few times.

Crucially, getting skirts accepted on guys is going to have to mean that we break the connection between "skirt" and "female" (or wannabe) once and for all. Without that, I really can't see it going anywhere with the younger set. I'd be happy to be proved wrong in that assertion, but we watched the problem flare up here recently resulting in a whole lot of ruffled feathers. The problem is is that the detractors will not back down even when told to; had that happened in meat-space, I likely would have uncorked a punch or two to drive the point home about, "Stop that. It's flat wrong, and highly disrespectful." And I am not a violent man -- not by a long-shot. But sometimes, with some personality types there's no choice.

[mr seamstress]

I believe there is a silver lining in her videos. Teens has a tendency change fashion at moment notice. If they see something they like the will go for it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comm ... ?rdt=49920

Teen fashion trends is constantly changing. If teens see skirts as fashion trend they will go out and buy skirts. Teen fashion has little to do with mother and father choice of clothing. They will follow their own taste whatever that might be. There is always seems to be some new video teens to follow. Dua Lipa appears to be popular this week. Question is what kind of influence she is having on teens and how long it is going to last?

[crfriend]

I believe there is a silver lining in her videos. Teens has a tendency change fashion at moment notice. If they see something they like the will go for it.

That's just fickleness and lack of discipline.

Teen fashion trends is constantly changing. If teens see skirts as fashion trend they will go out and buy skirts. Teen fashion has little to do with mother and father choice of clothing. They will follow their own taste whatever that might be. There is always seems to be some new video teens to follow.

1) Are they going to be able to disconnect "gender"/"alignment" from sartorial choices?
2) Are the girls going to be willing to accept boyfriends in "their" clothing?

Somehow I have my sincere doubts on both (1) and (2).

I was a teenager once, and (sadly) I recall it. It wasn't pleasant.

[TSH]

It occurred to me that I may have excessively pessimistic in some of my posts. Regarding the time scale for MIS catching on.

No, I think you were quite on target. But not, perhaps, for the reasons you may have thought.

Maybe younger people are a bit more open minded than I anticipated. I am cautiously optimistic now.

I've oft said that we cannot expect change to come from the youngsters -- the change has to come from the already confident elders. The youngsters are too busy building their own worlds and characters to be really able to "think outside the box".

Crucially, until we can completely expunge the idiot linkage of "gender", sexuality, and identity from what amounts to a purely sartorial choice we will go precisely nowhere because no sane male is going to put up with constantly shoved into a "boxful of deviants" (which is the suggestion of "GNC", "Trans-*"
, and the like) -- and we've even seen that blow up in our faces recently here of all places where we darned well ought to know better. And all it takes is a tiny number of loud and shrill conspirators to destroy it for all of us.

Until we can get the point driven home that, "This is about adornment, folks. It's not a statement about anything else." we will never move forward.

There is room for some optimism about younger generation in accepting men in skirts.

Seems like a pretty small room to me.

As Lura on Dick Van Dike show wore nothing but pants in promoting pants for women. There are several reason why pants became mainstream for women.

Laura Petrie didn't always wear pants, though. Pants became common wear for women when they wanted to participate in activities deemed masculine, and skirts and dresses aren't always the appropriate attire for these things. That's one reason why they caught on. It's often lauded for women to branch out from traditional gender roles, but all hell breaks loose when a man wants to paint his fingernails. It's these sexist double standards that tell women they are inferior, so them becoming "like" men is easier to swallow for a lot of people, because a man doing the same is him "weakening his status" or some nonsense. It's why men in skirts still hasn't caught on in the cultural landscape of what's supposed to be a free, more enlightened society, in a supposedly more "civilised" era.

Dua Lipa can be added as another ingredient that can make it work. There is news stories about the new younger generations accepting all clothes as being unisex. Why not give it a chance of two to three months of optimism and see what happens and see if there is any new lads wearing skirts, because of Dua Lipa?

Because "two to three months" is far too short a time-frame to be hopeful over some male dancers and instrumentalists wearing kilt-like skirts in an SNL performance when the primary attraction is the female vocal performer singing. Most people are simple-minded arseholes; nothing's gonna happen because there is either more important stuff happening in the world, personal tribulations, relationships, or struggles in their minds.

When they do think about this, it might generate a few advocates amongst an audience of those passionless to our cause, and the selfish douchebags who actively want to impede whatever progress that is made because it makes them uncomfortable, but that's about it. People still cling to skirts being exclusive to females. It's why people are quick to make labels about a male wearing one because the thought of a man wearing such a "feminine" garment while still identifying as male (and straight) is still too progressive a concept for far too many people.

Dave Chappelle once coined the phrase "humiliation ritual" to describe a situation in which he would've been paid $50 million to be in a role where he would wear a dress, and rejected said role (to my knowledge, at least; don't care enough to fully explore this, because I don't really care what he says or does). While what Dave said here wasn't completely idiotic, he does have a point that many black celebrities such as him have starred in crossdressing roles for the sake of comedy (hence the "humiliation" part). This phrase got blown out of proportion (like just about everything else on this piss-test we call the Internet), and now it's being used by f***ing morons to label any male celebrity who dares wear a skirt/dress as being part of some stupid conspiracy to "weaken" masculinity, to "weaken" men in general (especially black men, for some reason). That's how deep this idiocy goes. That's how close-minded, thick-headed, and paranoid people can be. That everyone just starts making up bogus and sexist conspiracy theories to things they don't even want to try to understand, assuming an agenda behind bloody EVERYTHING. What the hell does anyone on this site have to be "optimistic" for?

I believe there is a silver lining in her videos. Teens has a tendency change fashion at moment notice. If they see something they like the will go for it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comm ... ?rdt=49920

Teen fashion trends is constantly changing. If teens see skirts as fashion trend they will go out and buy skirts. Teen fashion has little to do with mother and father choice of clothing. They will follow their own taste whatever that might be. There is always seems to be some new video teens to follow. Dua Lipa appears to be popular this week. Question is what kind of influence she is having on teens and how long it is going to last?

Teenagers are generally fickle sheep, so this isn't a surprise. This won't suddenly convince teenage boys to start wearing skirts because it's culturally-ingrained in their minds that "skirts are for girls, not boys". There has to a concentrated effort to dispel this delusion that, "This specific garment is for this sex, AND this sex only". Again, let me repeat this question:

What the HELL does anyone on this site have to be "optimistic" for?

[crfriend]

There has to a concentrated effort to dispel this delusion that, "This specific garment is for this sex, AND this sex only".

As I mentioned, until this point can be successfully driven home in to both men AND women, there will never be meaningful motion on this.

[TSH]

There has to a concentrated effort to dispel this delusion that, "This specific garment is for this sex, AND this sex only".

As I mentioned, until this point can be successfully driven home in to both men AND women, there will never be meaningful motion on this.

One thing to ponder, here, is: "How are we going about breaking away from this outdated, limiting mindset?" Will this even be answered or addressed in either of our lifetimes?

[crfriend]

One thing to ponder, here, is: "How are we going about breaking away from this outdated, limiting mindset?" Will this even be answered or addressed in either of our lifetimes?

My guess, and in the context of how toxic the world has gotten as a whole, is that it will not be addressed, never mind settled in our lifetimes. Certainly not mine.

[jamie001]

Is it possible for men to follow the same path that women followed when the started wearing trousers? The path that they followed created fashion freedom that they enjoy today. Women wanted to participate in men’s activities so they started wearing trousers. Most men do not want participate in women’s activities because even though we pay lip service to men and women being equal, this is not really the case. Women are still considered inferior and most men still subscribe to the mindset that they wouldn’t want to lower their status by participating in women’s activities.

Notice that in America, Girls are permitted to join the Boy Scouts, however Boys are not permitted to join the Girl Scouts. - More double standards!

The problem with acceptance of men is skirts is:

1. Male athletes will need to be seen wearing skirts and will need to promote them.
2. Men need to learn how comfortable skirts are but this will be difficult if they will never try one on.
3. Men need to realize the options that are available in skirts regarding colors, patterns, styles, and fabrics. The problem here is that most men don’t care about what they are currently wearing, so branching out in fashion is not an option for them.
4. Clothing is utilitarian in nature for most men and they are fine with the concept.

[Mouse]

The problem with acceptance of men is skirts is:

1. Male athletes will need to be seen wearing skirts and will need to promote them.
2. Men need to learn how comfortable skirts are but this will be difficult if they will never try one on.
3. Men need to realize the options that are available in skirts regarding colors, patterns, styles, and fabrics. The problem here is that most men don’t care about what they are currently wearing, so branching out in fashion is not an option for them.
4. Clothing is utilitarian in nature for most men and they are fine with the concept.

I think you have missed the boat Jamie. Most women do not wear skirts. So using women to show men how good skirts are is a lost cause. Women only wear skirts these days where they are made to by rules they are fighting against, or because they want to wear a skirt for many reasons of their own.

Men just want the same freedom to wear a skirt when we want to.

[Spirou003]

Is it possible for men to follow the same path that women followed when the started wearing trousers? The path that they followed created fashion freedom that they enjoy today. Women wanted to participate in men’s activities so they started wearing trousers.

There have been the WW during which women did take men's jobs because lots of men, who had been sent to the battle, were not present anymore to fulfill the jobs. In the factories and some smaller workshops, trousers are often part of the uniform for safety reason. This forced lots of women to discover what it feels like to wear trousers. The seed was planted in enough women's minds to allow trousers to gain traction. I can't see what could be a similar even that would force lots of men to wear skirt.

Most men do not want participate in women’s activities because even though we pay lip service to men and women being equal, this is not really the case. Women are still considered inferior and most men still subscribe to the mindset that they wouldn’t want to lower their status by participating in women’s activities.

Not going to speculate on why men can be reluctant to participate in women's activities. Regardless of whether they do participate in these activities or not, I see one point: which activity does require wearing a skirt to be done? I mean, out of the obvious activity that we could describe with "wearing a skirt" (is it really an activity?). Full equality in regards to activities that are done by men and/or women, is not going to move any inch the question of men in skirt.

[mr seamstress]

https://www.billboard.com/music/pop/dua ... 235593954/

https://kworb.net/youtube/artist/dualip ... e_vignette

Dua Lipa is having some profound effect on todays teenagers. Teenage girls enjoying video of male dancers in skirts.