A case of mistaken skirting - pays to read comments

[Coder]

I saw this in my search results and was like, cool!

Everton star Amadou Onana turns up for Belgium duty in a black pleated skirt and a Louis Vuitton handbag - and is praised as 'a child of his time' for his bold wardrobe choices

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footb ... ndbag.html

Some good quotes from the article:

With the growing financial power that players have, the clothing that they are buying is seemingly growing ever more extravagant, as stars on the field look to make a statement off of it, too.

And the editor of a Dutch magazine has been quick to point out that men's skirts are becoming far more common place after success on the runways.

'During the Fashion Weeks this spring, almost every luxury brand showed a men's skirt,' says Tim Van de Pas, editor-in-chief of the Dutch magazine Manify.

'Dior, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Givenchy: they all have it now. And then it is not surprising that you now see the men's skirt on the streets. That's how it goes with fashion: what appears on the catwalk in the spring, you see on the streets in the autumn.'

But then I started reading the Daily Fail comment section... someone pointed out he had posted to instagram that he was wearing shorts...

https://www.instagram.com/p/Czl-haNoDTu/

Yep, he was wearing shorts. And even then, someone on instagram commented on his bad fashion sense (if I'm understanding the comment correctly).

[pelmut]

[...]But then I started reading the Daily Fail comment section...).

What did you expect?  It is a cess pit of ignorance full of loud-mouthed bigots who think they have every right to dictate what other people should do.

[Barleymower]

Aside note. Dior handbag? Not many of the skirts I own have pockets and when they do they are shallow and I don't trust them. Consequently I carry my wallet and keep losing it around the house. I either need some kind of wallet holder or a handbag but I would probably lose that too.

[Coder]

[...]But then I started reading the Daily Fail comment section...).

What did you expect?  It is a cess pit of ignorance full of loud-mouthed bigots who think they have every right to dictate what other people should do.

I don't mind reading what other people write even if they are bigots. I'm secure in myself enough (not saying anyone who doesn't read them isn't) that reading hurtful comments by them doesn't hurt me - I also look for "hot takes" on the article - especially ones which correct the article, as one comment did. I'd rather know the full truth than a falsehood, and most often regardless of how awful the comments are there is always a thread that can be followed or investigated. Granted, one must be very careful when "believing" comments, and so I do that cautiously and judiciously - easily verifiable ones such as going to the player's own Instagram was sufficient to find the Daily Fail had indeed failed in their "journalism". In other instances, I'll trace back to original reporting, court documents, the actual social media posts, etc... when trying to understand what I'm reading.

I get a lot of pushback here and elsewhere for reading news comment articles, I just don't see the issue.

[Coder]

Aside note. Dior handbag? Not many of the skirts I own have pockets and when they do they are shallow and I don't trust them. Consequently I carry my wallet and keep losing it around the house. I either need some kind of wallet holder or a handbag but I would probably lose that too.

The handbag was certainly a thing - but designer/luxury handbags have been gaining popularity with men I've read. Could just be a reflection on that like pearl necklaces were a thing briefly (or are they still a thing???).

[STEVIE]

The handbag was certainly a thing - but designer/luxury handbags have been gaining popularity with men I've read. Could just be a reflection on that like pearl necklaces were a thing briefly (or are they still a thing???).

More likely Oxfam than Vuitton, I always carry a handbag unless it's the jolly old rucksack for extended outings.
As for the "Daily Wail", even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Sadly, some of it's outpourings are more widely accepted than is comforting to realise.
Steve

[Barleymower]

The handbag was certainly a thing - but designer/luxury handbags have been gaining popularity with men I've read. Could just be a reflection on that like pearl necklaces were a thing briefly (or are they still a thing???).

More likely Oxfam than Vuitton, I always carry a handbag unless it's the jolly old rucksack for extended outings.
As for the "Daily Wail", even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Sadly, some of it's outpourings are more widely accepted than is comforting to realise.
Steve

The trouble with the Daily Mail is they do what all good liars do. They mix truth with lies. It's becoming so widespread that it's hard to tell which way is forward.

[crfriend]

The trouble with the Daily Mail is they do what all good liars do. They mix truth with lies. It's becoming so widespread that it's hard to tell which way is forward.

The keys to navigation in these times where truth and fallacy freely intermingle is to have a strong sense of path and a powerful sense of right and wrong.

The former is what you want to do with your life, and a decent idea of the path to get there -- with everything moderated by the latter. Winnowing truth from fallacy can be difficult at times, but some basic notions can make it a bit easier. (1) Does it pass the "smell test"? I.e. does it smell like BS? If it does, it likely is. (2) Follow the money. E.g. Who is going to benefit from a lie? (Apply the Law of Unintended Consequences here, it always applies!) (3) Is someone going to get materially hurt by this? This is what makes the meat of the matter, because if a lie is going to materially hurt others then it's flat in the "wrong" category and should be shied away from.

Note that in the above commentary, it's important to not confuse "a strong sense of path" with "faith" -- others likely control one's "faith" and thus said faith may be suspect in some areas. The guidance needs to be internal.

So, yes, navigation is these confusing times is possible, it's just that it's frequently being done at night and one needs good insight and "instruments" to pursue it successfully. However, remember that by living a rigorously ethical life puts you at a distinct disadvantage. You need to accept that, or simply join the herd.

[Modoc]

Aside note. Dior handbag? Not many of the skirts I own have pockets and when they do they are shallow and I don't trust them. Consequently I carry my wallet and keep losing it around the house. I either need some kind of wallet holder or a handbag but I would probably lose that too.

An aside to your aside; I carry a handbag just big enough for my wallet and cell with an adjustable strap, that's long enough to wear cross-body and a loop for holding my keys. When I get home I hang it on a doorknob and haven't misplaced any of those things in a while.

[new2skirts]

[...]But then I started reading the Daily Fail comment section...).

What did you expect?  It is a cess pit of ignorance full of loud-mouthed bigots who think they have every right to dictate what other people should do.

Looked through the comments, most seem to call out the paper for not seeing they were flared shorts... almost as if some were disappointed it wasn't a skirt but at least it showed that the fashion houses are all making mens skirts now, this may filter down to the regular "high street" brands in future... it's no longer a shock as before

[Dust]

However, remember that by living a rigorously ethical life puts you at a distinct disadvantage. You need to accept that, or simply join the herd.

No, I would disagree. Stay above reproach. Live a moral/ethical life, holding yourself to a high standard. Build a good reputation. Then when the attacks come (and they will) people will come to your defense. "Not that guy! He would never..."

[crfriend]

However, remember that by living a rigorously ethical life puts you at a distinct disadvantage. You need to accept that, or simply join the herd.

No, I would disagree. Stay above reproach. Live a moral/ethical life, holding yourself to a high standard. Build a good reputation. Then when the attacks come (and they will) people will come to your defense. "Not that guy! He would never..."

My comment was much more subtle than that sort of accusation; my comment was more aimed as the fact that one will be at a competitive disadvantage when faced with competitors with "situational ethics" or none at all. Living a strictly ethical life is a very, very tough road in the modern world, and it's certainly not for everybody. Which is too bad for humanity as a whole.

Too, note that I explicitly stated "ethical" and did not mention "moral". I had that argument with a highly intelligent and slightly religious pal a few years ago, and he eventually agreed with my stance that "morals" can be corrupted and sidestepped for religious reasons. Ethics cannot be compromised. You're either "all in" or not at all.

[Dust]

However, remember that by living a rigorously ethical life puts you at a distinct disadvantage. You need to accept that, or simply join the herd.

No, I would disagree. Stay above reproach. Live a moral/ethical life, holding yourself to a high standard. Build a good reputation. Then when the attacks come (and they will) people will come to your defense. "Not that guy! He would never..."

My comment was much more subtle than that sort of accusation; my comment was more aimed as the fact that one will be at a competitive disadvantage when faced with competitors with "situational ethics" or none at all. Living a strictly ethical life is a very, very tough road in the modern world, and it's certainly not for everybody. Which is too bad for humanity as a whole.

Too, note that I explicitly stated "ethical" and did not mention "moral". I had that argument with a highly intelligent and slightly religious pal a few years ago, and he eventually agreed with my stance that "morals" can be corrupted and sidestepped for religious reasons. Ethics cannot be compromised. You're either "all in" or not at all.

I'm not saying it is easy, just that it is worth it. And yes, if more people do it, humanity will be better off.

I do tend to conflate morals and ethics. They are related, and it is even tougher to have one without the other.

[Grok]

Aside note. Dior handbag? Not many of the skirts I own have pockets and when they do they are shallow and I don't trust them. Consequently I carry my wallet and keep losing it around the house. I either need some kind of wallet holder or a handbag but I would probably lose that too.

The handbag was certainly a thing - but designer/luxury handbags have been gaining popularity with men I've read. Could just be a reflection on that like pearl necklaces were a thing briefly (or are they still a thing???).

Can't say that I have seen men with handbags or pearl necklaces in the Seattle area. I don't know about other places. Very occasionally you can see a man here in a Utilikilt.

As for losing things at home...I make a point of keeping wallet, phone, and keys at the same places, when not in use. If I were to ever adopt any kind of bag, it would be one that straps onto the body.

[rivegauche]

I confess I had never distinguished between ethics and morals on the basis that of you strive to the highest levels of both you can't go wrong. Interesting distinction.

I find the Daily Fail a subject for amusement but it isn't really funny that so many people are influenced by this hysterical drivel. As for the broken clock being right twice a day - that isn't much use as you would need another clock to know when the broken clock is right.