Harassed while skirted

[Brad]

The thread about upskirting reminded me of an incident in my life. I had an bad experience once while wearing a skirt. I had on a denim skirt at mid-thigh length with pumps and sheer pantyhose. I was walking around a trendy and more progressive area of my city where I felt I am less likely to encounter hostile people. It was at night and I suppose some people walked past me and didn't notice. Then, I heard the clicking gears of a bicyclist coming up from behind me and it was getting too close for comfort. And I was on a sidewalk in a state where it is illegal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk. I continued my normal gait and didn't look back as I did not want to appear scared or intimidated. I then felt a pinch on my upper buttock area as the bicyclist passed. The rider then looked back at me and I noted that it was a female probably in her 20s. I noticed that she was smiling. I made eye contact and she rode away quickly. At first I was too stunned to know what to think. When I processed it later I felt angry and violated. This woman had no right to touch me, and she only did so to humiliate a man in a skirt. It didn't feel flattering at all. I know that if I had touched her I'd be charged with assault and brought to jail. I was trying to imagine what perverse thrill she felt by harassing me. Did I "deserve" this for dressing so boldly for a male? Of course not. I still don't fully understand what happened at that moment.

[Caultron]

Agreed, she shouldn't have pinched you. That's not acceptable behavior in today's US society.

Then again, this presumably fit and likely attractive young woman seemed to enjoy you. Hmm. Even if you weren't looking at the time, it might be an ego booster.

I'm sure this young woman rushed past you too fast for a conversation, but one line I keep for these kinds of situations is, "Oh, I wish you hadn't done that. Now I only have two choices. I can either report you for sexual harassment or ask you for a date."

Alternatively, you could also have called out, "You know, there's more underneath..." It was only a fleeting moment.

FWIW, on a related note, I've had a lot more women tell me, "I like your kilt," or, "I like your outfit," than ever told me, "I like your pants."

But unwelcome remains unwelcome. Not everyone enjoys repartee.

[pelmut]

At a dance once, a woman deliberately lifted the back of my kilt where a lot of people were watching.  I waited a few minutes, then lifted the back of her skirt (not in quite such an exposed position).  She came at me with her fists up - and then stopped when she realised I was laughing at her.  I reminded her of what she had just done to me and we eventually parted amicably.

[denimini]

Perhaps she had been pinched many times by men and with the rare sight of a man in a skirt it was too tempting for a bit of payback - hence the smile.

[pelmut]

She had worked as a barmaid and was quite capable of looking after herself.

[Kilty]

I've had my kilt lifted countless times - it comes with the territory, and is well worn cliche... For women who may have experienced such behaviour 20 or so years ago, perhaps it's "payback" - or they think they are free to attack feminine men (in their POV) who cycle at night... despite pushback against gender roles and the way some guys treat them,some girls might still expect 'men to be men' If we have nicer legs than them they really hate it

[moonshadow]

Brad, based on this post and your other one, I'm just going to come out and say, that you seem to be having a tough time with people, particularly women in your region of residence, more so than most other members do. I've never taken New York for a backward area in general, there seems to be something else going on that you may want to pinpoint.

Further, a woman pinching you as she rides by in a bike is quite a feat. I don't think I could have pulled that off, and I'm not too bad on a bike. Are you sure she just didn't accidentally brush up against you?

On the other hand, I think most women just assume men like to be groped, and that we think about sex constantly.

If pop culture is any indicator, they'd be correct on that assumption. I hate to say it, but I'm afraid there just ain't much you can do about it. It may be technically illegal, but good luck getting a court to convict. My advice? Well, I never leave my back turned to anyone, generally speaking. If I'm on a sidewalk and hear someone approaching on a bike, I normally just step out of the way with my back to the wall.

I've never been upskirted, or bothered from behind because I generally don't trust people enough to be that close to them with my back turned. You can ask my wife, when we are eating at restaurants, I always like the seat where I'm facing the crowd. I also have pretty good hearing and I pay close attention to approaching foot steps.

Bottom line: Like it or not, women can do just about whatever they feel like to you. The system encourages this. Best thing to do is just try to stay out of their way.

[Brad]

Brad, based on this post and your other one, I'm just going to come out and say, that you seem to be having a tough time with people, particularly women in your region of residence, more so than most other members do. I've never taken New York for a backward area in general, there seems to be something else going on that you may want to pinpoint.

Further, a woman pinching you as she rides by in a bike is quite a feat. I don't think I could have pulled that off, and I'm not too bad on a bike. Are you sure she just didn't accidentally brush up against you?

I should clarify that this happened in Albany, NY where i used to live, more specifically on Lark St., and not the NYC Metro area where I am now. I'm sure the pinch was intentional - it was a pinch not a brush and she looked back at me as she rode away. And it may be quite a feat but it happened. That's probably how she got just the upper part of my buttocks and not the part that is generally pinched.

My other thread about women behaving aggressively towards me in a skirt was more about general observations and I don't consider those experiences to be negative. It seems that women act more like men around a skirted man.

[beachlion]

...... My other thread about women behaving aggressively towards me in a skirt was more about general observations and I don't consider those experiences to be negative. It seems that women act more like men around a skirted man.

Maybe assertive is closer to your observation.

[Daryl]

The thread about upskirting reminded me of an incident in my life. I had an bad experience once while wearing a skirt. I had on a denim skirt at mid-thigh length with pumps and sheer pantyhose. I was walking around a trendy and more progressive area of my city where I felt I am less likely to encounter hostile people. It was at night and I suppose some people walked past me and didn't notice. Then, I heard the clicking gears of a bicyclist coming up from behind me and it was getting too close for comfort. And I was on a sidewalk in a state where it is illegal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk. I continued my normal gait and didn't look back as I did not want to appear scared or intimidated. I then felt a pinch on my upper buttock area as the bicyclist passed. The rider then looked back at me and I noted that it was a female probably in her 20s. I noticed that she was smiling. I made eye contact and she rode away quickly. At first I was too stunned to know what to think. When I processed it later I felt angry and violated. This woman had no right to touch me, and she only did so to humiliate a man in a skirt. It didn't feel flattering at all. I know that if I had touched her I'd be charged with assault and brought to jail. I was trying to imagine what perverse thrill she felt by harassing me. Did I "deserve" this for dressing so boldly for a male? Of course not. I still don't fully understand what happened at that moment.

The most reliable way I've found for me to wrap my head around the behaviours of others is to try to imagine what I'd be feeling and thinking in that moment. From your description of the incident, it seems to me like it was what I'd call "the imp of the perverse". She knew that it was improper, at the very least. She felt the inhibition and somehow overcame it in a split second. Opportunity was about to slip by, and there was this urge, and the imp won.

In my case, the inhibition wins almost every time, even if I'm drunk. Not everyone is like that, especially after a drink or two. One doesn't have to be drunk to lose a little inhibition. Just one glass of wine can be enough, and one could still pilot a bike in a straight line.

She was on a bike and you were not about to give pursuit -- she could get away with it. You are a man (we assume she could tell) so you don't feel vulnerable the same way women do with men. If you are trans, then a bum pinch from a woman will confirm you are sexy. If you are not trans, then you will be reminded what you are flirting with, in a pretty harmless way. Either way, it's a naughty but friendly pinch, and she really feels the urge...

Note, I am only listing what might be in the mind of your assailant, not justifying it. All that and more may have flashed in her mind.

I've witnessed women at a bar with male strippers grab dancer's crotches and nipples. This during a time when a man doing the same things to a female dancer would probably have been roughly ejected or beaten up for being like that with a woman. Even female strippers are not "fair game" unless they communicate otherwise more directly than merely being naked, but men are, and they always treat it like fun, not like assault. It's just the world, so it's not too surprising that the imp of the perverse could overcome a woman when faced with a quick stimulus and the equally quick thoughts that might go with it.

Should we treat it any different legally? No, absolutely not, but you do have the option of how to respond to it personally.

The closest I've come to anything like that was at a party. A fellow co-worker and friend was sitting on the floor and I was chatting with her while standing before her in one of my wife's dresses. You could see the imp of the perverse glinting in her eyes before she reached out merrily and started to raise the hem of my dress to peak under. I made the universal "I could give you a stiff backhand" gesture immediately and she flinched in genuine fear, sheilding her face from the expected blow that never came. We carried on and laughed. It never affected our relationship, but I've felt a little guilty about that ever since, because her flinch was real. I'd hit a trauma button of some kind without intending to.

I'm happier feeling a little guilty than I would be telling myself she deserved it for assaulting me in that way.

[Daryl]

It seems that women act more like men around a skirted man.

There's a part of me going "oh I hope so". Is that wrong?

[weeladdie18]

I am with Moon on this one...I would be polite , pull into the side and face an approaching noise.
This is just being polite and streetwise.....A matter of personal survival.

I feel that most upskirting and personal contact takes place when alcohol has been involved.

[Elisabetta]

Brad, based on this post and your other one, I'm just going to come out and say, that you seem to be having a tough time with people, particularly women in your region of residence, more so than most other members do. I've never taken New York for a backward area in general, there seems to be something else going on that you may want to pinpoint.

Further, a woman pinching you as she rides by in a bike is quite a feat. I don't think I could have pulled that off, and I'm not too bad on a bike. Are you sure she just didn't accidentally brush up against you?

I should clarify that this happened in Albany, NY where i used to live, more specifically on Lark St., and not the NYC Metro area where I am now. I'm sure the pinch was intentional - it was a pinch not a brush and she looked back at me as she rode away. And it may be quite a feat but it happened. That's probably how she got just the upper part of my buttocks and not the part that is generally pinched.

My other thread about women behaving aggressively towards me in a skirt was more about general observations and I don't consider those experiences to be negative. It seems that women act more like men around a skirted man.

Hello neighbor! I use to live in Johnstown, N.Y. and would visit family in Albany. I'm moonshadows wife and can say yes Albany was bad at times for people doing that to others. I also remember they shut the Chuck E Cheese down across the road from the mall because that was a bad area not only did people panhandle like crazy but grouping and etc going on too.

[Brad]

Wow Jenn, that was close by. Johnstown had the first Walmart in the area in the early 90's and I drove all the way there just to see it. I lived in Albany for most of my adult life.

[Elisabetta]

Wow Jenn, that was close by. Johnstown had the first Walmart in the area in the early 90's and I drove all the way there just to see it. I lived in Albany for most of my adult life.

My dad use to work at the gloversville Walmart.