On crossdressing

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.

Re: On crossdressing

Postby moonshadow » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:38 am

On the matter of compromise:

I fail to understand how a woman (or "other half") who wears trousers any at all, freely and openly without any sort of issue can sit back and demand that the husband can not choose his clothes just because those clothes happen to be a skirt.

There's a word for that too: Hypocrisy!

That's not compromise, that's being an unreasonable hypocrite. Now if she always and exclusively wore skirts and dresses, and the marriage was built on the adherence to strict puritan gender roles then at least I could understand her point of view. But for the typical modern couple, this is nothing more than controlling hypocrisy, and really what it all boils down to is "what will the public say?"

On my mothers objection, she mentioned she could remember when it was expected for all girls to wear skirts all of the time. I then wondered what it must have been like for her to don her first pair of trousers back when she was younger? I wonder if she felt silly when she went out for the first time? I wonder if she worried about what the neighbors would think in those days?

I wonder why our wives expect and demand us to be the manliest of men, to uphold the family to societies standard of what a proper man should wear, and yet when a man makes a remark that a woman would look better in a skirt or dress... we're sexist pigs.

There's a phrase for that too: BULL SH!T!

Sorry if I offend those who have non-supportive wives, but it is what it is, lets not beat around the bush and sugar coat this. Call it compromise, call it understanding, call it what ever you want, but when you better make sure you slip off that skirt before the old lady gets home so she can strut around in her trousers, that's not right, and there's a word to describe that too, but I've probably already pushed too many buttons as it is, so I shall refrain from posting it.
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby Gordon » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:45 am

Yup, you're right Moon. My wife is full of bull-shit. She only likes me to wear "manly skirts" like denims or kilts. But would really rather that I didn't wear any skirts ever. And no, she doesn't wear skirts hardly at all and a dress only to weddings and funerals.
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby moonshadow » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:00 am

Gordon wrote:Yup, you're right Moon. My wife is full of bull-shit. She only likes me to wear "manly skirts" like denims or kilts. But would really rather that I didn't wear any skirts ever. And no, she doesn't wear skirts hardly at all and a dress only to weddings and funerals.


Of course I don't mean for anyone to take what I said above personal, I'm simply generalizing. My wife has said on many occasions she would prefer I just drop the skirts all together. Her reasons are good enough though. She worries for my safety, she worries about me loosing my job, and she has grown weary of the social struggles we've had since I've started wearing them.

But she still doesn't have an outward issue with what I wear, even if she doesn't like it, just the same as I don't pick her clothes for her, even if I don't care for it.

THAT is compromise!

But yeah, if some members here are content to let their wives rule over their choice of dress, then it's their life- whatever works for them. But to call it compromise is using the wrong word. Submission is more like it.
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby crfriend » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:02 am

Derek Plattis wrote:Capitulation means "giving in to an opponent or an unwelcome demand" (Oxford Dictionary).

I believe that browser auto-corrupt get you on that one. I suspect "or" should read "on". An unwelcome demand can be refused trivially. A more succinct definition would be a "unconditional surrender to a demand" -- which is hardly compromise.
Putting the other member's needs and interests first is often necessaryand doing so is far from an indicator of a failed relationship!

Indeed, However, in practical terms there are limits in how far one can go into such "compromise". How important is one's self compared to the importance of the partner's self?
When I posted my thoughts on this - I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition! :o

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Re: On crossdressing

Postby Sinned » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:01 am

Thank you Gordon for the best wishes. I think my diabetes seems to magnify the effects of the virus because the results are very much like a bad bout of flu without the characteristic aching joints that flu has. I have literally been bedridden since last Thursday and am getting up for the first time today. I'm in the coughing and sneezing period today.

Moon and Carl, what you say is right and in an ideal world wives would look at it logically and see the light but unfortunately this ain't a logical world and we men have to deal with the advantages that the golden vagina gives them. Like Gordon I agree that MOH is hypocritical about the whole affair but I choose to live with her and I am pushing her on her attitude all the time and making progress. She agrees that she is not logical but her parents were very Puritanical with a capital P and she is making the same mistakes that they made, she just doesn't see it yet. But there is dark at the end of the light tunnel, or is it the other way around? I now have three days until I go back to work and I shall spend all of them wearing a skirt, whether MOH likes it or not. Now let me see which one shall I wear ....
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:12 pm

Moonshadow, how except for personally would you expect the other fellows in this thread to take your posts?

Carl, you are so emphatic about how much more right you are than anyone else on everything that yeah, you did subject Derek to a miniature version of the Spanish Inquisition. You were trying to get him to see and admit to the error in his ways by whatever means necessary instead of recognizing that what matters is that he and his spouse have found a modus operandi that works for them.

Derek, I'm sorry if I pushed my point of view too hard. I only meant to illustrate an option that might work for you two. I also have to admit that any fellow who is married should take marital advice from a fellow who's divorced with a generous helping of salt. And I've been divorced three times!
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby crfriend » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:35 pm

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:Carl, you are so emphatic about how much more right you are than anyone else on everything that yeah, you did subject Derek to a miniature version of the Spanish Inquisition.

I am picky about the English language and do not like to see words getting redefined by being misused. Take the word "compromise" -- if one partner is continually forced to give in, that's not compromise it's capitulation. If it's a give and take, then it's compromise -- and in a good compromise there are frequently ways that both parties can benefit. Unlike the economy, it's not a zero-sum game.

Altogether too often "compromise" is code for, "It's my way or the highway" which is the antithesis of the actual process. Let's not lose another word, gentlemen.
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby oldsalt1 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:08 pm

Just a thought to lighten things up I find it amazing the much of the standards of what we wear are judged by what we wear to WEDDINGS and FUNERALS
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby JennC03 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:34 pm

moonshadow wrote:
Gordon wrote:Yup, you're right Moon. My wife is full of bull-shit. She only likes me to wear "manly skirts" like denims or kilts. But would really rather that I didn't wear any skirts ever. And no, she doesn't wear skirts hardly at all and a dress only to weddings and funerals.


Of course I don't mean for anyone to take what I said above personal, I'm simply generalizing. My wife has said on many occasions she would prefer I just drop the skirts all together. Her reasons are good enough though. She worries for my safety, she worries about me loosing my job, and she has grown weary of the social struggles we've had since I've started wearing them.

But she still doesn't have an outward issue with what I wear, even if she doesn't like it, just the same as I don't pick her clothes for her, even if I don't care for it.

THAT is compromise!

But yeah, if some members here are content to let their wives rule over their choice of dress, then it's their life- whatever works for them. But to call it compromise is using the wrong word. Submission is more like it.



Moon I want to clarify something. I love all of you for you. As I've said before and I'll say it again. I love all of you for YOU! It's just clothes to me it doesn't justify who you are or what you mean to me. To me you're still the man I fell in love with 16 years ago.

What worries me is everything you have to go through just to be who you are. For example those that bother you while your skirted and out taking pictures of things you enjoy doing. The way people approach you as if you're committing an awful crime. I worry for your safety very much because I've already lost so much in my life I don't want to lose you and be alone. I'm happy with your choices in life it just saddens me the rigmarole you have to encounter just to be yourself. So when I stated I'd rather see you in trousers than to catch hell for what you go through I hope you understand I fully 100% support your decisions I'm simply stating I just wish things didn't have to be so difficult for you. I hope I'm making sense.
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby hoborob » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:32 pm

Well Jenn to me you are making perfect sense. I think that is really what the whole issue is about. We all face the pressure of those around us that are set in that they have a see a particular order in their world to the point that they will lash out at anything that upsets that norm. I think that it would ultimately be fantastic that we would instead celebrate those little things that make all of us individuals and thus allow all of us to freely express ourselves. The only problem is that some will see what others have a wish it for themselves as well and thus try to take it form others if they cannot get it for themselves on their own. I do not necessarily agree with everything Moon has to say but in general I have no problem with him or his expression. Having myself known many people who live in rural areas most of them are a live and let live type of people so where you are in the state it's unlikely that you'll have any real problems so I wish you the best.

I live in an Urban area around many self centered people who are much more likely to lash out so I have to stay on the down low when I'm out but at home I can be who I really am which is my own blessing.
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby Sinned » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:32 am

I value comments and opinions and accuracy. Like Carl I was brought up to respect the English language and to be as accurate in using it as I can so I appreciate his pointing out the definitions. However, however they are defined they sometimes cannot really help in real life and so come into my category of every assistance short of actual help. I love and have to live with someone and will cope as best as I can with her idiosyncrasies. I take the advice for exactly what it has cost and sometimes take it and sometimes ignore it. But I always consider it. I don't take offence easily as I can just take myself off for a few hours to bring serenity back into my spirit. If MOH comes around she comes around. It's her problem to resolve and she will or won't in her own time. I don't condemn her for it but try and be tolerant and keep pushing. She knows that I am going out tomorrow in a skirt. She doesn't know where or what I will be doing as I haven't told her and I haven't decided myself yet. The Spanish Inquisition wouldn't work on me and I am not offended by anything Carl, Moon, Dillon or Dave to name a few say even if I disagree with them. Can't be any worse than some of the heated discussions in our house and we are still together.

Peace.
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby moonshadow » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:14 am

hoborob wrote:I live in an Urban area around many self centered people who are much more likely to lash out so I have to stay on the down low when I'm out but at home I can be who I really am which is my own blessing.


You know, now that you mention in, when I'm out and about in a skirt, the closer I move to central Virginia it seems the thicker the atmosphere gets (bad vibes). I ventured into Roanoke one day wearing a skirt, and even in my old town of Pulaski it seems I observed many dirty looks and low whispers behind my back. Roanoke really surprised me, being somewhat of a "liberal" city, as I walked the downtown blocks, I looked in the glass of some of the shops and observed people looking back out at me as though I had horns growing out of my head.

Even in Marion, which is getting somewhat away from what is known as "true southwest Virginia/Appalachia", while nobody is really hostile, I did have the run in about my photography which was something very rare. I also have noticed a lot of people of varying ages, from teenage to maybe even low thirties would turn and snicker.

This is somewhat new to me. In all my roaming around the Virginia coal fields and tri-city area of Tennessee, while I've certainly got the occasional gawk, for the most part people people totally ignored me (as they would have had I not being wearing anything unusual at all). Those who didn't were friendly.

Dare I say it... it's almost like the vibe got worse. It makes me miss my days on the Tennessee border.

Oh well.... it's my right. Fred correctly pointed out that Aiken County/Augusta Georgia people seem very friendly regardless of what you're wearing.

Maybe this year on my vacation we'll head to the real south and see if it's as bad as I've heard.
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby Disaffected.citizen » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:20 am

Just a thought; in less populated areas a difference will be noticed, but may not elicit adverse comment or reaction as the observer has an opportunity to "see" the individual. In densely populated areas there are two possibilities: i) you just "fade" into the noise, or ii) the populace "herd" together into tribes for mutual support; thus, as the "outsider" you are a fair target!

As I said, just a thought.
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Re: On crossdressing

Postby Derek Plattis » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:35 am

crfriend wrote:
Derek Plattis wrote:Capitulation means "giving in to an opponent or an unwelcome demand" (Oxford Dictionary).

I believe that browser auto-corrupt get you on that one. I suspect "or" should read "on". An unwelcome demand can be refused trivially. A more succinct definition would be a "unconditional surrender to a demand" -- which is hardly compromise.


Sorry Carl, but no! I looked it up in a papery thing called a dictionary, and I quoted it accurately.

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Re: On crossdressing

Postby crfriend » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:11 am

Derek Plattis wrote:I looked it up in a papery thing called a dictionary, and I quoted it accurately.

Interesting. I just looked at mine, and we are definitely using different reference material.

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