Trumps media

[Ray]

UK, not England. England is a region of a sovereign state, and your list is of sovereign states, so I'm guessing you were referring to the UK but somehow got confused.

[Ray]

Ps - sorry for the "stuck record" nature of my comment!

[Stevie D]

Ps - sorry for the "stuck record" nature of my comment!

Keep it up Ray! Don't stop educating people.
When I lived in South Wales, I was highly embarrassed to receive a letter from a US friend (who ought to have known better) addressed to me at my house in, I quote: "Burry Port, Wales, England". As it was, the postman 'happened' to crumple the letter severely putting it through the letter box; I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd set fire to it at the same time. I saw him the next day and apologised profusely for my friend's insensitivity.

[crfriend]

Don't stop educating people.

Or, at the very least, don't stop trying. Some are ineducable, and that's unfortunate, but most tend to be if they're paying attention.

[WesleyN]

Okay I mean UK. I know it that the UK exists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
And I think I know very much how world looks like.

I was in America staying in a Military Base (Fallbrooks CA) And we were around the swimming pool. A soldier spoke to us. And we talk about our holiday. And we said we came by car from Michigan. And we have been in Detroit too. And so he asked to us. Which place do you like more Michigan or Detroit? Yeah what do you have to answer??? He said he saw the whole world. He had been in Alaska, Yugoslavia and Irak. Okay. I have seen some of the world too. But only places where you can say: I think it's safe there.

[Ray]

Ah, but Wesley - if you were truly referring to the UK, why did you refer to it as England? That's like calling the USA Texas, or referring to the Netherlands as Holland....

[WesleyN]

Excuse me that it feels so difficult.

I think there's a difference between England, Texas and Holland. England is a country. Texas is called a state. And Holland that is I think only two provinces: North- and South-Holland. But everybody says Holland when they mean The Netherlands. And so I say England, when I mean the UK. It is not correct but you say it. And the Belgium people rather hear Flemmish or Wallonic than you are a Belgian. If you are Scottish, you don't wanna hear: you are English. I understand.

Is that not a part of problem? We are we. And they are they. We are less tolerant. We are better than they... Because they are doing things, we can't tolerate...

[crfriend]

Excuse me that it feels so difficult.

Old conventions die hard, but that is not an excuse to be wilful about it. When it is just as easy to be correct (and not politically correct, I'll add) why use incorrect terms?

Mentioning that a Londoner is from England is technically correct, and a piece of mail so addressed would likely arrive for its intended recipient. Calling a Glaswegian that might result in a pounding. Sending me a piece of mail addressed to my street address and town but in Texas would likely result in your letter getting returned to you (or just plain lost) (This is one of the reasons why most places have post codes.) I'm not sure how sensitive the Dutch are to having their country referred to by its obsolete name, but I imagine that there are purists who bristle at it. The upshot is that it's pointless to use obsolete names for modern countries when it's really pretty easy to get it right.

[WesleyN]

It was not willfully to say it wrong. I just have not thought about it. English is not my primary language. In the past I have to choose German for my exam, because English was to difficult for me at that time. Then I had to take an exam in a foreign language.

And I did not realize, that England vs. UK was an old discussion.

And I do not care if they say I come from Holland instead of from The Netherlands. I live in a village near Rotterdam. And often I say I live in Rotterdam. Often people think I am gay, because I wear a skirt sometimes. I don't care either. People judge how a person looks like and do not judge what you are doing. People have a meaning of you before they know who you are.

[Sinned]

Ray, don't get so hung up about it. We British can't get it right all of the time, mostly through laziness, so don't go on at someone who's primary language isn't English, or should that be Ukish, and doesn't live in the UK. Let's not be too pedantic. If pressed I live in Yorkshire, not East, North, South or West Yorkshire, but that's just me being reactionary, not realistic. We were so very close to becoming just another region of that European superstate that may yet unravel. It's not really THAT important.

[hoborob]

It is very interesting to me that it really depends on where you are as to what your answer would be as to where you are from. When I was in another country and I was asked where I was from my answer would be that I was from the US or America. If I am in another state I would answer that I was from Virginia. In state I would answer that I was from the Hampton Roads area. In this area I would say that I was living in Norfolk.

It really depends on a lot of variables how we all would answer the question of where we are from or where we are referring to. How specific are you trying to be and how much knowledge of the area does the person we are speaking to have of the area. If I were in Bahrain for instance and I told someone I was from Norfolk they would have no idea what I was talking about but telling them I was from the US would be understandable to them and if they wished to become more specific then I could get them closer to where I am here.

Having done some world travel I would refer to another country by the name that I have grown up with of that I have gotten used to using. So many areas have changed their names in the past 20 years I cannot keep track anymore especially the former Soviet Socialist Republic area which has now become at least 5 or 6 if not more distinct countries, I think. I have in my knowledge the names Britain, Briton, United Kingdom, and England, that to me refer to the entire British Isle area. I know that there are a number of individual countries involved but unless I know the area I have a hard time getting specific with a particular area. In my travels I have passed through London's airports but have never actually been "in country", so I have a hard time remembering where Scotland and Ireland are much less Wales or any of the other locales that I hear from time to time. It would be like saying I am from the Stoney Point area of Virginia and having someone from the Ukraine understand where I am talking about.

I will allow that a person from another country that speaks another language as their primary language would understand that I was talking about the US, but not that I am referring to an area of Norfolk Virginia.

[Disaffected.citizen]

If we wish to be pedantic, The British Isles comprise two sovereign nations; Eire (The Republic of Ireland) and The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland abbreviated to UK.

The UK comprises (in alphabetical order) England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

Additionally, within The British Isles are included three Crown Dependencies: the Isle of Man and, by tradition, the Bailiwick of Jersey and the Bailiwick of Guernsey, both within the Channel Islands.

The relationships between the various constituent parts is not simple as regards to the Commonwealth of Nations and/or the European Union.

Let's not get too het up about it all; wars have started over lesser things! If you are able to be precise and correct, then I am grateful.

As regards the former Soviet Union states, I believe they are now 15 sovereign states, but I'll defer to those more knowledgeable than Wikipedia and me!

[Ray]

I'm just asking that once you know what a country is called, it's just nice to refer to that country by its correct name. I never refer to the Netherlands as Holland. I did until 1982, when I was corrected by someone from north Brabant, which is most certainly not in Holland but is in the Netherlands. I learned. I adapted. Not hard to do really.

As was mentioned above, don't go to certain parts of Scotland and insist on calling the UK England. Do it once, you'll be quickly corrected. Insist on using the E word and you'll get serious verbal if not physical abuse - and no sympathy.

For a Scot, being referred to as English is rather insulting. I know it doesn't help that the UK is utterly messed up in its governance (Bank of England? England? FFS) but it's good manners to move to the correct names after finding out.

UK or Britain is absolutely fine.

I'm assuming that the country south of Canada isn't called Murka, as referred to by George W Bush?

[beachlion]

Don't be stricter than the Dutch when it comes to the use of Holland or the Netherlands.
For promotional uses all over the world often Holland is used. For instance Holland House at the Olympics. For official use it is the Netherlands or Kingdom of the Netherlands. Formally there are two provinces, Zuid-Holland and Noord-Holland (South-Holland and North-Holland) and they formed one province Holland before 1840. During the the Napoleonic period there was a Kingdom Holland for a short time that also had a part of now Germany.
In daily use both names are used but as soon as you have to fill out a form it is Nederland of NL if you are lazy. At least that is the way I did it for almost 70 year.

[Milfmog]

Ray,

I think you are being over sensitive.

In Europe we have all our Trumps. In England, The Netherlands (both blond too).

I guess that is a reference to Boris Johnson, who is a resident of England as well as being the UK Foreign Secretary. If my reading is correct the Wesley was technically correct; BJ is usually in England, a part of the UK. Would you have moaned if he had referred to London, rather than England? Just wondering.

Have fun,


Ian (a former employee of the UK Border Agency)