Signs of the times?

[crfriend]

The fact that we decide to wear skirts has nothing to do with our "role" in society. It has everything to do with who we are as individuals.

With due respect, I find that too idealistic to be true. People dress in a way which 'fits in' with their role in society, so that we can be recognised as belonging to a particular group or role. That is why many organisations have uniforms and many companies have a corporate identity. The way that we dress demarcates our position and role. Where I work, the men must wear business like shirts, ties and, of course, trousers. The senior staff all wear suits which separate them from the rest of us.

Also, with all due respect, that notion relies on 1950's thinking; we're 60 years removed from that. One's actions speak vastly louder than words, and certainly -- in most circles -- more than one's wardrobe. "Actions" in this case is not just what one does within his community, it's also how one interacts with others in that community, and, to a lesser extent, communities outside his own.

In my social group at the pub in the evening, jeans, trainers, T shirts and jumpers are the norm, but some level of individuality is tolerated.

That's "modern uniform" -- the go-to look that one puts on when there's no imagination or individuality. I do not regard it as normative in any sense whatsoever save that of herd mentality.

I am reminded of a slogan on a co-worker's t-shirt at the last place I worked at: "You laugh because I'm different. I laugh because you're all the same." I saw that, pointed to his rig and then pointed to mine, and merely grinned. The guy winced because he knew he'd been had. (We're talking of a place where 150 IQs were the norm.)

I think what we wear reflects and reinforces our social role and position and gives us a strong sense of identity and belonging.

If one feels such a compulsion to look identical to everyone around himself the best avenue to reduce anxiety is to join the military or a monastery.

I rather cherish the role of creative renegade. It turns out that I function perfectly well in most millieux -- from reasonably up-scale places to some remarkably down-scale ones -- and am respected and liked in all. Ultimately, it 's down to how one behaves.

If wearing a skirt in public causes you angst, then it's probably best not to try; keep it private and enjoy the act in that realm. It does take "stones" to buck convention, but it can be done. The choice is yours, and yours alone.

[Derek Plattis]

The fact that we decide to wear skirts has nothing to do with our "role" in society. It has everything to do with who we are as individuals.

With due respect, I find that too idealistic to be true. People dress in a way which 'fits in' with their role in society, so that we can be recognised as belonging to a particular group or role. That is why many organisations have uniforms and many companies have a corporate identity. The way that we dress demarcates our position and role. Where I work, the men must wear business like shirts, ties and, of course, trousers. The senior staff all wear suits which separate them from the rest of us.

Also, with all due respect, that notion relies on 1950's thinking; we're 60 years removed from that. One's actions speak vastly louder than words, and certainly -- in most circles -- more than one's wardrobe. "Actions" in this case is not just what one does within his community, it's also how one interacts with others in that community, and, to a lesser extent, communities outside his own.

In my social group at the pub in the evening, jeans, trainers, T shirts and jumpers are the norm, but some level of individuality is tolerated.

That's "modern uniform" -- the go-to look that one puts on when there's no imagination or individuality. I do not regard it as normative in any sense whatsoever save that of herd mentality.

I am reminded of a slogan on a co-worker's t-shirt at the last place I worked at: "You laugh because I'm different. I laugh because you're all the same." I saw that, pointed to his rig and then pointed to mine, and merely grinned. The guy winced because he knew he'd been had. (We're talking of a place where 150 IQs were the norm.)

I think what we wear reflects and reinforces our social role and position and gives us a strong sense of identity and belonging.

If one feels such a compulsion to look identical to everyone around himself the best avenue to reduce anxiety is to join the military or a monastery.

I rather cherish the role of creative renegade. It turns out that I function perfectly well in most millieux -- from reasonably up-scale places to some remarkably down-scale ones -- and am respected and liked in all. Ultimately, it 's down to how one behaves.

If wearing a skirt in public causes you angst, then it's probably best not to try; keep it private and enjoy the act in that realm. It does take "stones" to buck convention, but it can be done. The choice is yours, and yours alone.

I don't know where to begin answering all that but it surely needs answering........
1950's mentality? ...It started centuries before that as soon as tribesmen began to paint themselves with woad or whatever, but it is no less valid today. It is simply how society is structured, demarcated and how we each recognise each other, in order to lead on to appropriate interaction. Without the appropriate wardrobe, one may not get to appropriate words or actions!

'Herd mentality,.....that just seems a rather crude and abusive way of describing social grouping and that's exactly what I mean here. It is not about blindly following the crowd but positively wishing to be recognised as belonging to it.

I like the T shirt one...but lets not brag about I.Qs here. I too am a Mensa member ...when I can see the point in paying the subscription.

One does not join the military, or any religious order in order to look the same as anyone else. That is just putting the proverbial cart before the horse. One wears the uniform in order to be recognised as belonging not the other way round.

Yes, it takes balls to wear a skirt in public. I know that only too well. I have been doing so with varying levels of recognition and acceptance for a good 30 years or more. During that time I have had some good laughs, and also regrettably hurt people close to me. It is, however, the only way to break down gender prejudices regarding, garments, styles, colours etc., however, it is essential to be mindful of those with whom we wish to interact successfully and to wear appropriate clothing for the various jobs, roles and functions which we fulfil.

The bottom line is that I am with you...I wouldn't be contributing here otherwise but it seems we may have to agree to differ on some of the reasoning behind our aims.

Derek

[crfriend]

1950's mentality? ... 'Herd mentality[' ...]

I candidly admit to using those terms for their shock value. Sometimes little else works.

The intent of my missive was to point up that most folks will respect you for your actions and the way in which you interact with them rather than what your clothing looks like. Whilst this isn't necessarily going to 100% true, I'd be willing to bet that it's true in 99.9% of cases (unless one is unfortunate enough to live someplace really backward).

The key is, to use the euphemism, "Think outside the box." I believe you'll find people accepting of that, especially if you acquit yourself politely and gracefully in your interactions with them. Society as a whole (the "herd") is a very tough nut to crack; however, individuals are quite easily won over. "One mind at a time" and whatnot.

The bottom line is that I am with you...I wouldn't be contributing here otherwise but it seems we may have to agree to differ on some of the reasoning behind our aims.

I respect that, and understand that the difference in opinion is entirely healthy and may largely depend on individual circumstance.

Peace, brother.

[Derek Plattis]

Peace, brother.

Peace it is, cheers, Derek