What is civilisation?

[Sarongman]

Reading the "longest unintelligible sentence:" made me wonder and we, being of a philosophical bent here, I am throwing open the question; What constitutes civilisation?
Here are my thoughts. Civilisation means laws, democratic political institutions and guaranteed rights. It also means professions and trades, streets and unfettered communications, rites and solemnities (such as Obama's upcoming inauguration); science but art as well. Great art, visual and aural, literature and poetry. Toleration, co-operation and kindness are an indispensible foundation on which to build a civilisation. Looking at today's civilisation, while science is worshipped as well as "mammon" the other attributes have taken a back seat, so maybe, in every civilisation there is the seed of barbarity ready to overwhelm it. Conversely, in barbarism, probably, lies the germ of a new civilisation. Does that make sense or is it a load of tripe?

[sapphire]

Also included are agriculture and settlements. More modern definitions include health care.

[Milfmog]

I remember reading a science fiction story many years ago in which an translator had difficulty communicating with his particular group of aliens because they measured a civilisation by how close it kept its' excrement, while humans rate civilisation as a large gap between individuals and their digestive waste.

Have fun,


Ian.

[Since1982]

I think civilization is the burden the old try to impress on the warrior young we humans naturally are. The fact we have bigger, smarter brains than most of the mammals has moved us to the top of the food chain. It hasn't stopped us from killing each other in nearly wholesale quantities. We're so smart we can devise bigger and slicker ways to kill ourselves every year. We've managed to turn the planet into a place where at least 50% of the air is polluted if not more. We've been around about 10 million years, been actively progressing about 10 thousand years and will probably kill ourselves off or find another planet to inhabit within another 1 thousand years. I've watched beaches all over Florida turn from white sand and deep blue water to tan/brown sand and yellowish brown water in just my short lifetime. How do you think they'll change in 200 more years? I worry a lot about the future. Wish I could stick around to watch what happens. Sorry for my sad predictions.. I hope they don't come true.

[Sasquatch]

Random House defines civilization as "an advanced state of human society in which a high level of culture, science, industry and government has been reached." I suppose the "high level of government" qualification in effect excludes much of the world from bearing this title.

BTW, Random House defines civilisation as "civilization, but with an amusing accent."

(Just kidding; don't get your knickers in a twist!)

sasq

[gshubert]

Kenneth Clark, in concluding the last chapter of his book Civilisation, wrote:

I believe that order is better than chaos, creation better than destruction. I prefer gentleness to violence, forgiveness to vendetta. On the whole I think that knowledge is preferable to ignorance, and I am sure that human sympathy is more valuable than ideology. . . . I believe in courtesy, the ritual by which we avoid hurting other people's feelings by satisfying our own egos. And I think we should remember that we are part of a great whole, which for convenience we call nature. . . . Above all, I believe in the God-given genius of certain individuals, and I value a society that makes their existence possible.

These don't make a civilization, as he said earlier, but they can be among the agreeable results of civilization.

[Jack Williams]

Well, when all is said and done, i'll second Kennith Clark on that! Jack.

[Grok]

A complex, settled society that is fed through agriculture.

[Sinned]

Srngmn,

The trouble is that in your definition you mention rights without defining responsibilities and it's one of the main faults with the Human Rights Act. There needs to be a new one called the Human Rights and Responsibilities Act. By defining what responsibilities is expected of the member of civilisation ( to act responsibly, not hurt others etc ) then one can discuss in which circumstances not being responsible limits ones rights.

[Grok]

Historians compare the present to the Hellenistic Age-scroll down. It seems that the ancient Greek experienced a post-modern thing. This was a cosmopolitan period, often dated from the death of Alexander the Great to the death of Cleopatra.

[Sarongman]

The trouble is that in your definition you mention rights without defining responsibilities

Sinned, you are quite correct in that statement and I was, I suppose, remiss in not adding the (moral?) need to take full responsibility for our own actions. This can open a hornets' nest here, but very necessary opening anyway. Actually, the denial of responsibility could be the death of civilisation.
BTW I am surprised that this thread, which I had forgotten, rose back to life so unexpectedly.