The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

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Uncle Al
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The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by Uncle Al »

Model Trains :D

I'm in the process of building a 2' X 4' trolley layout with live overhead
power wire. This is in N-Scale (1:160) where 1foot = 160 feet.

These are the first pic's of the process...

Laying the foam roadbed....
IMG_0627.jpg
Completed roadbed....
IMG_0626.jpg
Laying the track....
IMG_0630.jpg
Testing the track....
IMG_0644.jpg
Poles drying after staining....
IMG_0657.jpg
Poles planted around the track....
IMG_0676.jpg
Hanging the overhead wire....
IMG_0684.jpg
Wire attached to the power pole....
IMG_0689.jpg
To Be Continued........

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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by crfriend »

That is seriously cool, Al, and represents a lot of work. I know I'd never have the patience (or space) to construct such a model.

I see that the A&D is testing out one of its newer cars on the line. ;) (The car looks rather similar to a late-model single-ended PCC, probably dating to the 1940s or so.) Since you'll be using trolley-poles for the current-collectors, the scheme will be time-compatible back to the vary late 19th Century and forward until about the late 1970s when trolley-poles were almost universally retired in favour of pantographs (which mandated different catenary practises).
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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by Uncle Al »

Thanks Carl ;)

It is a start on my first layout. BTW, the PCC cars were built in
St. Louis, MO. in 1945. PCC stands for Presidents Conference Car.
This helped to set the 'Standards' in street car production.

More info later :D

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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by skirted_in_SF »

This is way cool Uncle Al. You mean the cars are powered by the overhead?

If you like PCCs and other streetcars, come visit us in San Francisco where they run in revenue service every day. More info here:
http://www.streetcar.org/
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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by Uncle Al »

Thanks for the link S.F.

The pics tell a lot of the story. I see they are still using the PCC's in
active service. GREAT!

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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by Taj »

That's cool, Al,
I used to model HOn3 when I had the time. All of the engines and rolling stock are in boxes until I find time to build some track around the rec-room bar in the basement. Most of my stuff is D&RG or DSP&P. If we ever have the chance to meet you might enjoy looking at my auotographed, 1st printing copy of Mile High Trolleys. I knew all three authors. I am not a train nut, I am not a train nut, Ok, I was a train nut and got too busy.
Regards and FLT,
Taj

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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by kingfish »

Too cool for words.

That power cable, however, looks like it will be tough for the trolley brushes to track. My first thought is to go for some stranded wire that would really drape well. Something with 40AWG strands. A quick check with mouser.com (my second favorite components distributor) showed them stocking a couple 100' rolls of 28AWG (19/40) stuff that not only cost around $80, but are PTFE insulated (in other words, expensive and a pain to strip). FYI: The 28 is the overall wire gauge (0.0126" diameter), the (19/40) is the specification that says it's made up of 19 strands of 40AWG wire.

My second thought would be to bend something that's rigid and already straight like a piece of brass music wire. I'd hold it flat on a blank piece of plywood to make the oval, then mount it on the posts.
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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by Kirbstone »

Great stuff, Uncle Al. I've just returned from spending six days in a city famous for its old-time single streetcars.....Lisbon, Portugal. I was interested that the gauge there throughout is only about 2' 10", and each car perches on a four-wheeled bogey with quite a short wheelbase, so the cars can negotiate amazingly tight curves along their narrow steep-ish streets. ( The very steep streets have angled funiculars).

Reminds me of 'A Streetcar named Desire'. Looking forward to your pics. of the finished article.

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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by crfriend »

Uncle Al wrote:To Be Continued........
Well, how's the layout coming along? Curious minds want to know.
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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by Uncle Al »

Sorry for the delay in posting anything.

I've had a set back with the layout. I've glued the foam to the board
and poured the pavement. I had to go back and remove the 'pavement'
from between the rails as the wheels want to jump the track.

Now I have a bit of an electrical problem and the car doesn't want to
stay on the track. I will have to re-hang the overhead wire. I'm going
with a .015 music wire which will be stiffer and not droop.

Next I will add styrene insulators to the right side of the car and re-install
the copper 'wipers' hoping this will help keep the car upright, as it is
leaning to the right.

I'll take another pic in a couple of days and get it posted here.

Sigh......More to come :D

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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by crfriend »

Uncle Al wrote:I've had a set back with the layout. I've glued the foam to the board and poured the pavement. I had to go back and remove the 'pavement' from between the rails as the wheels want to jump the track.
Sorry about the setback.

Out of curiosity, are you using"trolley-rail" (if such a thing is manufactured for model railways) or "conventional" (i.e. "heavy") rail? Street-railway rail is a very different beast than what is used on freight (and heavy passenger) roads Whereas conventional rail is the typical "I" shape with the wide flat web "foot" and curved "head", trolley-rail includes an attached barrier that forms a groove in which the cars' wheels' flanges ride. This solves the problem of derailments and makes street paving where there's a trolley line vastly easier as the paving crew just puts down the tarmac between the guards (trying not to get any in the flange-way) and steamrolls it. Turnouts in streetcar lines are also very different animals than in conventional railways and, if you're using any, it'd be best to get some diagrams and read up on the technology.

Street-railways are also very much of a train-track "system" where the tracks and cars need to be very much compatible or else derailments will occur. This happened in Boston in my memory twice: once when Boston was retiring its contingent of long-serving PCC equipment in favour of the Boeing-Vertol light-rail vehicles in the 1970s and just recently when the city purchased new low-floor cars from Breda. In the '70s, an entire line (the "Boston College" line) had to be reworked because the Boeing cars would consistently derail on the stretch and the PCCs never did, and in the mid 2000s the brand-new Bredas would routinely "take the ground" where the (long-since refurbed) Boeings and newer Kinki-Sharyo cars seldom did. I think there were some suspension mods to the Bredas as there was not any extensive trackwork performed.
Now I have a bit of an electrical problem and the car doesn't want to stay on the track. I will have to re-hang the overhead wire. I'm going with a .015 music wire which will be stiffer and not droop.
You'll also want to be very careful with the upward force your trolley pole exerts on the catenary. Some force is necessary to ensure a good connection (and trolley-pickups are prone to arcing even in the real world) but not so much as to produce any sideways thrust as the pole gets into an off-vertical position (as in when going around curves). This thrust is meaningless in real-world trolley systems (save that it can shove the catenary around a bit, another reason pantographs came into use) but in models may be enough, if unmanaged, to destabilise the model possibly to the point of assisting a capsize, especially if the model (not the builder ;) ) is unbalanced to start with (see below).
Next I will add styrene insulators to the right side of the car and re-install the copper 'wipers' hoping this will help keep the car upright, as it is leaning to the right.
If you're hell-bent on making use of only the overhead for power you may want to substitute some form of stiff but "springy" plastic (perhaps a small strip of old credit-card?) for the copper pickups. You'll still need the "pickup" for the current return, but you'll need to balance the upward force from side-to-side generated by the pickups.
I'll take another pic in a couple of days and get it posted here.

Sigh......More to come :D
I'm looking forward to it, and persevere on the task at hand because it can be solved. :!:
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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by ziggie »

I love n scale. I have a 3x6 layout in the basement that I don't have near enough time to work on. You can pack so much interest (and money) into such a small space.
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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by crfriend »

Model railways are all well and good, but this author has always cherished the beasts in 1:1 scale. Those are the ones you can touch, hammer on, hear, smell, and really get a taste for how they really work and do what they were designed to do. I applaud the modeller and his attention to detail (are you listening, Al?) and am glad that joy can be found therein (and frustration, too).

I've never trod the footplate of a 1:1 locomotive in action, but have spent much time studying how it is that the contrivances came to be, what their evolution was, and where they may yet go. I happily celebrate new speed records for steel wheel on steel rail and get embarassed when things go wrong (e.g. "standing derailments" on the old Penn Central in the 1960s). Sometimes "failure" points up success, and in this I refer to a high-speed derailment to a TGV when if crossed over a weakened, and unforeseen, World War One trench and took the ground, and nobody suffered any life-threatening injury. And sometimes one winds up with jokes like the New York Central's brief flirtation with the notion of a thrust-powered jet train (not to be confused with the turboshaft-driven "Turbotrains" of the '80s and '90s).

But rails, roadbed, rolling-stock, and motive power are only part of what a railroad does and how it does it. The whole thing is fascinating to study, and if one has interest the "deep dive" is actually quite enjoyable. With apologies to Dennis, "grok".
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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by ziggie »

Agreed, 1:1 is a great scale but, here in beautiful western Pennsylvania it is becoming all too rare. The local lines are all defunct and the tracks have been pulled. The only good thing is that some of the rights of way have been turned into rail trails, so I get to ride my bicycle though some of the old tunnels.
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Re: The Alanville & Duncan Electric Traction Company

Post by Kirbstone »

The April 2011 issue of National Geographic has on page 122 an article titled 'Manhatten High' which features an old El-train track converted to an elevated City Park.
Here in Dublin they are busy extending our new city trams system, the 'Luas'. The overhead electric live wires are suspended between support poles from a catenary longitudinal cable suspension geometry, ensuring a straight wire at a constant height over the track. The pick-up pantographs on the trams are 'pushed' along, in that the forward motion tends to increase contact pressure on the live wire, with zero arcing.
It's fascinating to see the amount of pavement infill under the track bed to support the laser-levelled welded rails ensurng a smooth ride without subsidence. I agree, scale 1:1 is best....you can ride on it!

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