Presenting "as a woman"

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.
skirted84
Distinguished Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:07 pm

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by skirted84 »

Interesting views and I certainly haven't seen a "flame war" on this subject, if my definition is correct. Shows how nuanced the situation is.

Stevie yes, what we experienced on Saturday is the ideal. Three (breifly four) quite clearly men happily wearing skirts, not remotely trying to look like anything else, no tangible reaction at all. What we have aspired to for years. As many of us know this hasn't always been the case and has led some to try the alternative route as you acknowledge from years gone by. Even the drunk was more interested in anti lockdown rants and not our attire at all. There are still idiots like you discovered back in Aberdeen, I won't lose sleep over some who won't move with the times as long our safety remains in tact.

Rivegauche I love you philosophy. Even dressing as a woman in no way "makes" us women, thats a matter of biological fact. Those friends who had a sex change were not only thinking of clothes and they had several assessments that in part rule out transvestism alone, they could do that as men. But it is true the **** transwomen are getting now is just a continuation of what MIS have had for decades.
jamodu
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by jamodu »

The strong impression is created that a substantive (I didn’t say significant) number of Women transition to being Men. That is, it’s not a one way street: it’s not only Men that transition to being Women.

Given that such Women transition to Men, it cannot be an issue of wearing the clothes of the opposite sex. Other Women have no issue in buying Men’s clothes for themselves. The fashion industry caters for their needs, with items such as ‘Boyfriend Cardigans’, for example. Overall, if a Woman primarily dresses in Men’s clothes she doesn’t regard herself as a Man - and neither does the rest of society..

Sadly, the same standard doesn’t apply to us Men. I regularly wear either a Skirt or Dress on a daily basis at home - and my Wife has no issue with whatever else I choose to wear - but society would not treat me equally if dressed in the same manner outside my home.

Like the Woman who dresses in Men’s clothes for comfort, I equally find comfort in the ‘Women’s’ clothes that I wear.

For now, it’s the familiar double-standard barrier that we all have to endure - and with no sign on when that barrier will be broken.
pelmut
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1923
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:36 am
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by pelmut »

In my own particular case, I joined this group as a man wearing a kilt.  After a while I dared to wear a skirt and found that it seemed to attract far less unwelcome attention.  The strange thing was that I realised I resented being misidentified as a Scotsman* far more than I resented being misidentified as a woman -- in fact I discovered I quite liked being treated as a woman; it felt more natural.  That was one of many clues that started me on a journey of exploration which eventually led to the discovery that I was some flavour of transgender and explained my feelings that I was much happier presenting as a woman.

Looking back, I can see that I was transgender all along, but just rather slow at discovering it.  If people had assumed I was transgender at the start I would probably have resented it just as much as if they had assumed I was scottish and for the same reasons: I didn't like being stereotyped as something I 'knew' I wasn't.  I also wasn't 'transgendered' by wearing a skirt, just as women aren't 'transgendered' by wearing trousers.

There are many different reasons for wearing a skirt, presenting as a woman is a perfectly valid one but it isn't the only one; in fact it is probably one of the least common ones if this group is anything to go by.  Unfortunately 'transgender' is in the news at the moment, so that is the first false conclusion a lot of people jump to -- but by next year it could just as likely be Scotsmen, homosexuals or even paedophiles, depending on what sensationalism the media is promoting for profit at the time


*[My apologies to the Scots on this group, I don't dislike Scotsmen but found that the assumptions and stereotyping irritated me]
There is no such thing as a normal person, only someone you don't know very well yet.
User avatar
Mike
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:46 pm
Location: Alto, Michigan
Contact:

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by Mike »

Last Saturday I went to my local redneck bar and "sang" karaoke. Had a blast. Me as Jennipher:

Image
Mike

Who the hell is 'society' anyway?
STEVIE
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 4188
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: North East Scotland.

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by STEVIE »

pelmut wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:15 am *[My apologies to the Scots on this group, I don't dislike Scotsmen but found that the assumptions and stereotyping irritated me]
Hey Pelmut, no apologies are required and I think most of my countrymen would agree with me.
Interesting point regarding assumptions and stereotypes, I think they irritate everyone in one way or another.
I'm a native Scot who wears skirts but not a kilt in any accepted sense so there is one right away.
Let's face it, life would be a hell of a lot easier if there weren't any but what would we do without the challenge?
Not being a big fan of statistics, I haven't looked deeply into my next point which brings us back to the thread.
It is this, how many people who regularly wear clothes tagged for their opposite gender either are or likely to go into transition.
To borrow Rivegauche's phrase, how many are simply gender tourists sampling the delights of the 70 or so destinations?
My reckoning is that it doesn't actually matter except to the individual concerned. Come and go as they please and emigrate if they discover a new land to their liking.
Finally,
Mike wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:50 pm Had a blast. Me as Jennipher:
Yeah and looking as cool as ever. You really should send a link to a sound recording at some point.
Steve.
Ralph
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by Ralph »

I really want to believe that your karaoke choice was "Lola" by The Kinks :D
Ralph!
User avatar
JohnH
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 1013
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:46 am
Location: Irving, Texas USA

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by JohnH »

Mike wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:50 pm Last Saturday I went to my local redneck bar and "sang" karaoke. Had a blast. Me as Jennipher:

Image
I have hair below my shoulders and my bra cup size is DD.
I also have a bass singing voice.

So maybe I ought to dress up as Dolly Parton and go to a karaoke bar where I could sing Johnny Cash songs such as "Ghost Riders" and "Rings of Fire"

John
Ralph
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 493
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by Ralph »

JohnH wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:15 am So maybe I ought to dress up as Dolly Parton and go to a karaoke bar where I could sing Johnny Cash songs such as "Ghost Riders" and "Rings of Fire"
Yes! I also sing bass, and next time I go out to a karaoke event I plan to do all girlie songs pitched two octaves below their normal range. Imagine Darth Vader singing "I Will Survive" or "These Boots Are Made For Walkin'"...

Sadly I don't have your confidence to go out dressed in my favourite outfit, but at least I can do a bit of gender-bending in my music!
Ralph!
rode_kater
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 836
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:46 pm

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by rode_kater »

pelmut wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:15 am There are many different reasons for wearing a skirt, presenting as a woman is a perfectly valid one but it isn't the only one; in fact it is probably one of the least common ones if this group is anything to go by.  
I'd say it's more common actually. The crossdressing Reddit has 175k subscribers and wanting to present as a woman is the overwhelming majority of posts there. That's a lot more than this forum.

What's hard to tell is if it's because they want to wear a skirt but feel only women can do that. Every now and then someone there realises that they just want to wear skirts but present as a man. I try to tell them there are places that do that (like here) but it's a smaller niche than just crossdressing. (estimates on crossdressing vary between 1% and 5% of all men, depending on how you count).
Dust
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:03 pm

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by Dust »

Ralph wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:33 am Yes! I also sing bass, and next time I go out to a karaoke event I plan to do all girlie songs pitched two octaves below their normal range. Imagine Darth Vader singing "I Will Survive" ...
Not bass, but I always liked this version better anyway...

https://youtu.be/f9rCUQjmkxU
User avatar
moonshadow
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 6994
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:58 am
Location: Warm Beach, Washington
Contact:

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by moonshadow »

Wearing a skirt doesn't make me a woman any more than a woman who wear pants becomes a man.
-Andrea
The old hillbilly from the coal fields of the Appalachian mountains currently living like there's no tomorrow on the west coast.
STEVIE
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 4188
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: North East Scotland.

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by STEVIE »

moonshadow wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:05 am Wearing a skirt doesn't make me a woman any more than a woman who wear pants becomes a man.
True Moon but nor would any of the other "feminine" accoutrements such as wig, cosmetics and all the other stuff available to complete the illusion. Good point from Rode Kater regarding numbers. The industry for the accoutrements and accessories likely generates a hell of a lot more income than manskirts ever will.
Just a thought that "presenting as" is still a long way from actually becoming. Some guys presenting as female will certainly be in transition but likely even less will eventually just evolve as a guy in a skirt. I was one but it was not an easy or pleasurable journey.
Just occurred to me too that "becoming female" is one of the arguments which my wife has voiced as an objection to my skirts in the past.
In my world, the arguments have ceased but her opinion will not have altered one iota.
Silence is Golden.
Steve
User avatar
floatingmetal
Active Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:30 am
Location: London, England
Contact:

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by floatingmetal »

skirted84 wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 6:47 pm I do have trans friends who I fully respect, its a huge journey and only a tiny number will benefit from going this route, and not just to dress as they want. Then again there are old schools of thought it is safer to disguise as a woman if you can than openly skirt as a man, one we hope is eroding given recent (lack of) reaction.
You're close, skirted84, but still have some way to go. There's are many trans people who've been willing to share their stories, and much more academic material on gender identity, gender dysphoria and relevant history available online. If you're genuinely interested, spend some time educating yourself. This isn't the place and I have neither the time or the energy to do it. I have spent about 70 formal hours as a therapist to people who were non-binary, trans or questioning their gender identity, plus many other hours talking to trans and nb friends in person and online. "Nobody"[1] goes through surgical gender affirmation (i.e "transition") just to wear skirts.

[1]You might be able to dig up an example, they'll be a complete outlier.
User avatar
Uncle Al
Moderator
Posts: 3861
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:07 pm
Location: Duncanville, TX USA

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by Uncle Al »

OK - I'm going to throw my $.02 worth into this fray................

If you want to "present as a woman", do it....
BUT
This forum is not for, nor about, "Presenting as a Woman".

Yes this is the "Freestyle Fashions" section but this topic doesn't belong on a
forum for, and about, getting Men In Skirts accepted by the general public .

This kind of discussion may dissuade many potential members from joining Skirt Cafe'.

This kind of discussion does not help convincing wives or Significant Others that all
we're wanting to do is wear a skirted garment.

:hmmm: May we shelve this topic, put it on the far back burner or take it completely
off the stove :?:

"Move along now, nothing to see here"............

Uncle Al
:mrgreen: :ugeek: :mrgreen:
Kilted Organist/Musician
Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on ;) )
When asked 'Why the Kilt?'
I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
User avatar
Sinned
Member Extraordinaire
Posts: 5804
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:28 pm
Location: York, England

Re: Presenting "as a woman"

Post by Sinned »

Well sais, UA, those wanting to discuss this further there are other forums for it.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
Post Reply