When Is a Kilt Not a Kilt ?.The True Story

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When Is a Kilt Not a Kilt ?.The True Story

Postby weeladdie18 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:01 am

This Thread is initially related to the History of the Kilt as it is recorded in an American Dictionary of the English Vocabulary.
Please correct me if my references are not correct...I have been researching this subject for over fifty years of my life.

The original Great Kilt was a piece of cloth wrapped around the male body, belted and hitched up with the hem above or below the knee ,
as required by the wearer. " Kilting up " refers to the act of hitching up the material under the waist belt.

" Kilt " is a Scandanavian word brought to the Celtic Lands by the Viking warriors and traders . The garment is defined by the American Dictionary
as being a male skirt which was originally worn in Scotland

A skirt is defined as a garment normally worn by the female.......If the illustrations of historical Scottish Highland Dress are studied ,
the Male is wearing the Kilt and the female is wearing an ankle length skirt or dress.

The Male wore a Knee length tunic or "lein " beneath his Great Kilt.....The Kilt was often removed when the sword bearing warriors
charged into battle.
As far as I can remember during WW11 the Highland Regiments were described by the German Infantary as " Devils in Petticoats "

Try googling " History of the Kilt, Robert MacDonald ,Tailor and Kiltmaker. "................ weeladdie
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Re: When Is a Kilt Not a Kilt ?.The True Story

Postby Gusto10 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:49 am

If I'm not mistaken, the kilt had a predecessor being just a warp around. It's described amongst others in Barbara Tuchman's "The Calamitous 14th Century". During wars men/soldiers would wear these wrap arounds with the crest of the party for whom they were fighting visible. Often the crest of the other party would be on the inside, in case they would decide to switch party. Further more, as Beachlion might know, the are some Dutch expressions as the shirt is nearer than the skirt and farmers would have a skirt for the Sunday while visiting church and another for the rest of the week. That was still customary till about the 1830's in the Provence of Drente.
Last edited by Gusto10 on Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When Is a Kilt Not a Kilt ?.The True Story

Postby weeladdie18 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:38 am

Thank you for your comments Gusto. The Lien was a tunic with the hem above the Knee. This garment was worn beneath the wrap of the
Great Kilt......often when the warriors went into battle , they took off their Great Kilts and charged into battle wearing only their tunic.

I would suggest that your comments possibly pre date the references to the early Great Kilt.....It is suggested that 15 C Medieval Man wore
Tunics....My guess is that your references are possibly 15 C or 16 C . However changes in male fashion do vary from country to country.

Perhaps your " Gentleman Farmer's tunic " may have been similar to The Tudor Tunic as worn by King Henry The Eighth...
I am only guessing.........weeladdie
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Re: When Is a Kilt Not a Kilt ?.The True Story

Postby Gusto10 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:36 am

As indicated the reference in time period would be the 14th century in respect of the wrap around. I believe that the Great Kilt is of later date.
The skirt in the Provence of Drente would be a wrap around thing also, but also a coat with a wide flowing part from the hips.. I have tried to find a picture of the item, but to no avail.
I did note the in other languages similar expressions exist, like Latin: 'Tunica propior pallio est’; French: ‘La chemise est plus proche que le pourpoint’ and German: ‘Das Hemd ist mir näher als der Rock’. It all translates as "Blood is thicker than water". The Dutch word "rok" is still used to refer to the "Rok Costume" being the tails to go with the white tie and top hat.
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Re: When Is a Kilt Not a Kilt ?.The True Story

Postby Gregg1100 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:59 pm

" As far as I can remember during WW1 the Highland Regiments were described by the German Infantry as " Devils in Petticoats " "

Always thought it was "The Ladies from Hell"
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Re: When Is a Kilt Not a Kilt ?.The True Story

Postby Fred in Skirts » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:37 pm

Gregg1100 wrote:" As far as I can remember during WW1 the Highland Regiments were described by the German Infantry as " Devils in Petticoats " "

Always thought it was "The Ladies from Hell"


I have always heard "The Ladies from Hell" Or as my mother always said, "The Ladies from Hades"
Fred :kiltdance:

:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts all of the time. :hooray:
"It is better to be hated for what you are than be loved for what you are not"
Andre Gide: 1869 - 1951
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Re: When Is a Kilt Not a Kilt ?.The True Story

Postby weeladdie18 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:10 pm

Perhaps the " Devils in Petticoats were the earlier Highlanders who removed their wrap around Great Kilts and charged into battle wearing only
their knee length liegn which was a simple tunic.........

As far as I can remember the Canadian Highland Regiment were the last Highland Regiment to invade Europe wearing the Scottish Highland Kilt.
This was the Dieppe Raid in 1943.

Some of the Black Watch Commandos wore their Kilts on the St Nazaire Raid also in 43. .....................weeladdie
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Re: When Is a Kilt Not a Kilt ?.The True Story

Postby weeladdie18 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:26 pm

It does seem to me that the true history of the Kilt has been lost in the folk law passed down by successive generations who lived in the countries where the Highland Regiments served............weeladdie
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