Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.

Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Grok » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:51 am

Daryl wrote:
Totally agree about length except the length for men, in my opinion, should be about 2 inches longer than for women.
I suspect that females could get away with more than we can.
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby kiltedterry » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:48 am

It seems that the press like to cover stories where men/boys have been discriminated against. They can't wear shorts to school/work yet women/girls can wear short skirts/dresses.
But the stories are covered in a way to reinforce the stereotype that skirts/dresses are for women only and trousers/ shorts are for both men and women ie shock horror boys turn up to school in school dresses/skirts, school reviews policy so boys can wear shorts!
Just my two bits worth
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Sinned » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:28 am

What do you mean COULD? Women always DO get away with more purely because of their sex and not just in the area of skirt lengths. And it's not just men that allow it - women do as well and the authorities exhibit an amazing degree of tolerance. The only area women are having issues is over displaying the nipple - most of the breast can already been displayed and I think that if they used nipple covers they could pretty much get away with being topless now. Not sure that the free the nipple campaign has universal support ( except with men ), particularly among women in general.
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby moonshadow » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:05 am

Indeed Dennis!

I'm not sure I agree that men and women should have different standards on modesty. Just because most men aren't considered eye candy doesn't mean that we should be ashamed of our bodies.

If a good pair if briefs is worn their will be no flashes anyway.

For what it's worth, though I'm not a nudist (I don't have the courage) I do think clothes in general is somewhat of a queer custom. We are the only member of the animal kingdom that wears them, and I've always figured if God wanted us to wear clothes, we would have been born with them on!

Represent MIS? Certainly. But I don't like the idea that I should be denied something simply because I was born with a penis. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Sinned » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:42 pm

Moon, the standards of modesty should be the same for men and women but as we know they aren't, nowhere near. But try persuading Jenn or MOH that just because you or I can go around outside without our shirts on so they should be able to. I think I can guess what they would say. No would be the polite and very short version.
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Daryl » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:00 am

Grok wrote:
Daryl wrote:
Totally agree about length except the length for men, in my opinion, should be about 2 inches longer than for women.
I suspect that females could get away with more than we can.


Maybe, because there is the stereotype of the male sexual aggressor, but there is something else, and I believe more fundamental. When women's underwear is seen up skirt all that is seen is a smooth area. When men's underwear is seen, it's jiggling lumps in a sack.

There's no double-standard there. Women wear bras for support, yes, but also, and sometimes primarily, to suppress nipples. Whether we agree with it or not we live in a culture where exposure of the sexual bits of the body is taboo, including exposure through clothes.

Maybe a couple of generations from now a discussion of what we "can get away with" will make sense. Right now trying to "get away" with anything of a sexual nature as if it were part of the freedom to wear skirts is NOT helpful. They are separate issues, and need to stay that way.
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Daryl » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:15 am

moonshadow wrote:Indeed Dennis!

I'm not sure I agree that men and women should have different standards on modesty. Just because most men aren't considered eye candy doesn't mean that we should be ashamed of our bodies.

If a good pair if briefs is worn their will be no flashes anyway.

For what it's worth, though I'm not a nudist (I don't have the courage) I do think clothes in general is somewhat of a queer custom. We are the only member of the animal kingdom that wears them, and I've always figured if God wanted us to wear clothes, we would have been born with them on!

Represent MIS? Certainly. But I don't like the idea that I should be denied something simply because I was born with a penis. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.


Hi Moon. Please see my reply to Grok just above. What's good for the goose IS good for the gander, just different, because our bodies are different. It can be argued that male nipples are equally sexual, but they tend not to be as prominent, so women both suppress and hide their nipples while men don't. Similarly, men's genitalia is much more prominent than women's...
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Daryl » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:37 am

Sinned wrote:Moon, the standards of modesty should be the same for men and women but as we know they aren't, nowhere near. But try persuading Jenn or MOH that just because you or I can go around outside without our shirts on so they should be able to. I think I can guess what they would say. No would be the polite and very short version.


Over 20 years ago, Ontario (where I live) had its law about female toplessness struck down by the provincial supreme court. The government considered replacing the law with one that would pass constitutional muster, and that triggered a big public debate about whether women should be allowed to be topless in public. It seemed to me that women were opposed to the idea of female toplessness being legal far more than men were, but among those opposed to it of either sex, opposition was all about decency, not wanting children to see women's nipples, and concern that it would make society more sexually decadent. The law was never replaced. It is now perfectly legal for any woman to be topless in public here and has been for more than 20 years. And the sky didn't fall. I think I've seen women taking advantage of their new freedom about twice since then, once in a park catching some sun and once in her own yard, both on very hot days. I exclude the Pride festival from that. Many women go topless during that, no doubt aware that they can't be arrested for it, but the lack of the legal prohibition has had little effect beyond that.
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Daryl » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:46 am

kiltedterry wrote:It seems that the press like to cover stories where men/boys have been discriminated against. They can't wear shorts to school/work yet women/girls can wear short skirts/dresses.
But the stories are covered in a way to reinforce the stereotype that skirts/dresses are for women only and trousers/ shorts are for both men and women ie shock horror boys turn up to school in school dresses/skirts, school reviews policy so boys can wear shorts!
Just my two bits worth
Terry


Yes, that's it. It does point to something that is helpful, though. Boys are only exploiting that "loophole" because they can and because they feel comfortable doing so. That form of protest is a recent development. It would never have occured when I was in high school. Never.

What I'd like to know is if schools responding by making shorts legal for boys are also closing that loophole. If they aren't closing the loophole even when it's exposed and exploited, something positive has happened nonetheless.
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby wsherman » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:29 am

LOL!
In my humble opinion I think there is no more modest apparel the dad of the skirt.
I wonder what would've happened if the schools in question had said, no shorts are still not allowed but you may wear the skirt of the school uniform if you wish.

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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Daryl » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:34 am

wsherman wrote:LOL!
In my humble opinion I think there is no more modest apparel the dad of the skirt.
I wonder what would've happened if the schools in question had said, no shorts are still not allowed but you may wear the skirt of the school uniform if you wish.


Hi Bill. Ummmm....what means "the dad of the skirt"?

I think most of us here hoped that's how the schools would respond. That would have been my exact response, were I the principal of any of them. My statement would have been...

"Our young men have demonstrated the kind of resourcefulness and creativity we aim to inculcate in all our students. Although no specific changes to our uniform code is necessary on account of the unusual heat wave we are experiencing, we are altering it to accomodate this most obvious solution by specifying that boys kilts will have aprons that open on the right not the left. This single change will not come into force until the year after next, in recognition that so far our young men have had to improvise by acquiring kilts made for girls and will need time to acquire official boys kilts and get their money's worth from their current kilt investments. We have informed all the uniform makers for our school of this change so that they will be ready to meet demand almost immediately. Parents who have never had daughters attending our school should note that we will be enforcing the other school uniform rules, including length and colour requirements, as per usual, and make themselves familiar with these rules before doing any new uniform shopping for their sons.

Let me close this statement by thanking our young men for solving this problem for us. The addition of a new type of garment would have required a much lengthier process and still not yielded as good a solution to the heat we are experiencing. Well done lads!"
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Disaffected.citizen » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:23 am

Daryl wrote:
wsherman wrote:LOL!
In my humble opinion I think there is no more modest apparel the dad of the skirt.
I wonder what would've happened if the schools in question had said, no shorts are still not allowed but you may wear the skirt of the school uniform if you wish.


Hi Bill. Ummmm....what means "the dad of the skirt"?

I think Bill meant "than that of the skirt". I believe Bill uses alternative input devices, including speech recognition software, as a result of visual impairment.
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby wsherman » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:33 pm

Disaffected.citizen wrote:
Daryl wrote:
wsherman wrote:LOL!
In my humble opinion I think there is no more modest apparel the dad of the skirt.
I wonder what would've happened if the schools in question had said, no shorts are still not allowed but you may wear the skirt of the school uniform if you wish.


Hi Bill. Ummmm....what means "the dad of the skirt"?

I think Bill meant "than that of the skirt". I believe Bill uses alternative input devices, including speech recognition software, as a result of visual impairment.


Thank you disaffected for the clarification. I do indeed use the dictation available on my phone and sometimes Siri gets a silly with what she writes.
Darrell thank you for that eloquently phrased response. I hope one of these days we will see just that happen And I believe it will if this sort of protest continues.
Thanks again!

Take care as you go everyone and enjoy your day!
Bill
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Re: Issue of men in skirts on Today show this morning

Postby Daryl » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:11 pm

moonshadow wrote:...most men aren't considered eye candy...


I forgot to add "speak for yourself, Moon". There. Now I have.
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