Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear skirts

Discussion of fashion elements and looks that are traditionally considered somewhat "femme" but are presented in a masculine context. This is NOT about transvestism or crossdressing.

Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby Gusto10 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:55 am

crfriend wrote:
Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:[...A]re men's clothing so boring and so limited in its range because men have so little to say that's interesting or unique to the individual?

That's an interesting poser in and of itself, and I somewhat suspect we're not exactly the lot to answer it as we've moved beyond.

My personal suspicion, and I'll be happy to accept heat for the assertion, is that the average guy is pressed upon from so many different directions that he may simply not care any longer. He's desperate for his job which supports little more than himself, never-mind his family; he's worried what his (perhaps or supposed) "macho" pals will think of him if he "strays from the path"; and he's worried what his (increasingly masculinised wife) is going to think of him if he "strays from the path" (whilst she encroaches on it).

Just a random thought, No, I do not have a sociology degree.


It doesn't require a degree in sociology as sociologists confirm on Macro level what is know commonly.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby kilty » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:08 am

Couya wrote:
skirting today wrote:... it is interesting


Much as I usually respect your opinion and comments, Ross, I can't agree with you that there was anything interesting in this article (except " even mentions Skirtcraft skirts and this site" of course). we have already read this 100 times when some journalist thinks he is being original. Always the same examples; Always the same inference : that most men will never forego their trousers. The fact that a few oddities from the entertainment world put a skirt around their pants for a publicity stunt has no bearing on what the general public do, see or want.
Have any of you met a youngster (i.e., someone who had actually heard of these entertainers), who has said "Wow Xyz looks great in his skirt; I am going to wear one, too" ? No need to ask if any older man ever said this.

Martib


Martib, I like your name, it's very unique! What's the origin? :lol:

We are slowly creeping towards skirtlike garments for men, with oversize T shirts covering (increasingly tight) pairs of jeans. One boy band from "X Factor" called Rough Copy had a "skirted" member wearing what was more like an apron over trousers which looked naff, and should have rocked a kilt instead. Aside from Seann Miley Moore, very few guys have worn pencil dresses or in his case, pencil skirt with towering heels complete with makeup - week in week out in any show like X Factor. Once he was voted off he went on the gay cabaret circuit. Aside from Eddie Izzard, there are few prominent stars who wear a skirt or encourage men to follow suit. Robbie Williams rocks a kilt now and then which is socially acceptible, but even then the cost of a kilt makes most men save them for special occasions.

There's only going to be us few, despite designers efforts who make stuff either too outrageous or too expensive for any man to consider a skirt. Dexter Cheston's stuff looked great, but I could replicate the look for a fraction of the price on ebay. When skirts for men reach mainstream stores like Primark, we know we've made it.

I think theres so much apathy that when I have stepped out in a skirt, most just "unsee" me and carry on. Even most women only wear a skirt because the workplace may dictate it. It's getting harder to find skirts even in women's clothes shops as people go for the more convenient jeans or trousers, which allows girls to "sit like a man", not worry about exposure, keep warm, etc...

Kilts are becoming more of a thing and more are worn in the South of the UK than in Scotland itself, the Kilt Suit is becoming popular, though still very expensive. Don't expect any seismic shift in fashion this year.

www.newmalefashion.blogspot.com shows alternative fashion for men, sadly most of the men in skirts on LookBook have or are transitioning... :blue:
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby Grok » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:31 am

kilty wrote:
Couya wrote:
skirting today wrote:... it is interesting


There's only going to be us few, despite designers efforts who make stuff either too outrageous or too expensive for any man to consider a skirt. Dexter Cheston's stuff looked great, but I could replicate the look for a fraction of the price on ebay. When skirts for men reach mainstream stores like Primark, we know we've made it.

:
Basically, a small group of mavericks at this point.

Think of the group as the vanguard.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby DonP » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:28 pm

If you want to inspire more men to wear skirts, then you should wear skirts in a manly fashion. Most people in general don't care what you wear, but I think most men are reluctant to appear feminine. If they could see an example of a look they could emulate, it might help expand the base. And that would help free up the acceptance of all skirt wearing.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby jamie001 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:38 pm

The problem is that most men are very afraid to appear feminine, whereas women are not afraid to incorporate items from men's fashion into their overall look. Maybe men should learn from women that there is nothing wrong with adding items that are distinctly of the opposite gender to their look.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby Caultron » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:27 pm

jamie001 wrote:The problem is that most men are very afraid to appear feminine, whereas women are not afraid to incorporate items from men's fashion into their overall look. Maybe men should learn from women that there is nothing wrong with adding items that are distinctly of the opposite gender to their look.

Yes, if only.

In fact, there are many role models including celebrities in kilts, musicians, fashion designers, and us. But somehow the critical spark has never been lit.
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:52 am

Caultron, The sparks keep getting lit, they just haven't caught yet.

I'm keep getting more and more convinced that American men are afraid of compromising their standing in society by adopting skirts, because they see skirts as women's wear and women as social inferiors. Maybe as the realization that by just running Hillary Clinton for President she shattered a glass ceiling, there will be more of a feeling of equality.

Not to mention all of the awareness and acceptance of all of the variations in gender expression.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby Caultron » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:22 am

Jaden Smith is an example of what it'd take, but he can't do it alone. The fashion houses apparently can't do it either.

Maybe if skirts became popular for, say, skateboarding, or grunge, or goth...
Courage, conviction, nerve, verve, dash, panache, guts, nuts, balls, gall, élan, stones, whatever. Get some and get skirted.

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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby crfriend » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:44 pm

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:Maybe as the realization that by just running Hillary Clinton for President she shattered a glass ceiling, there will be more of a feeling of equality.

I suspect that'd be highly unlikely. The simple fact that she lost the "election" is one indicator. The other is that for the most part she wears trousers, albeit in sometimes flamboyant colours. My thoughts are that this is going to have to happen from the bottom up which is one of the reasons I tend to get prickly about confusing clothing choices with gender because that puts most guys on edge.
Not to mention all of the awareness and acceptance of all of the variations in gender expression.

Keep hammering on that theme and you'll drive guys away from the notion of trying skirts, not enticing them to.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby Sinned » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:47 pm

I like clothes and I know what clothes I like. I grew up in the 60's and the flowered shirts, bright colours, different clothes, Afghans etc were my delight. Then came the dark days but my liking for bright colours never waned. In fact gender doesn't matter to me. I know what sex I am; I know what my sexuality is; I don't really know what gender I am nor do I care. I believe I have established a style and am comfortable with it. So, gender - it's just another word.
Last edited by Sinned on Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby Pdxfashionpioneer » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:55 am

In fact gender doesn't matter to me. I know what sex I am; I know what my sexuality is; I don't really know what gender I am nor do I care.


"By George! he's got it."

Labels are just a shorthand way of understanding who a person is and how to relate to them. And that last part changes over time and place. Not only have the Millenials figured out that gender isn't a binary or even a small hand full of options, it's a spectrum.

Think of the color spectrum. It's easy enough to identify the three primary and three secondary colors. Trying separating the whole Pantone collection from the binder and the labels, making a thoroughly mixed pile of them and then trying to put each swatch into buckets labelled with each of 6 major colors. I couldn't do it, certainly not with any reliability. Experts would do it with certainty and then find that each experts sorts would vary somewhat.

The same's true of this ever-growing pantheon of gender labels. You can either choose one you can make your peace with or have one slapped, and I do mean slapped, on you that you may not like. Will your choice be somewhat arbitrary? Damn right! But just so long as you're comfortable with it, it'll do.

Think of it as a required name tag to get into the banquet of society, without it you can't get in. Once you're seated at the table, when one of your dinner companions asks about it, you can take it off and explain to all within earshot you're just a guy who likes to wear skirts.

Now think of how this whole name tag thing works in most groups you've belonged to. When the group is growing, they're important so everyone can keep track of everyone else's names. After the group's stabilized and matured, they're not so important because everyone knows everyone else. Some people call you by your proper name and others by your nickname. And some just listen. But they all know who you are, with or without your name tag.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby Sinned » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:41 pm

Yeah, well sorry Dave, don't take offence s I get what you are saying and agree with limitations but using the spectrum of colours example ....

.... I am a colour on my own in the blue-purple end of the spectrum, not blue but not purple either. So I don't fit into either the blue or the purple bucket and hence none of the other colour buckets either. So anyone trying to fit me into any of the trans* or gender* buckets are on a hiding to nothing.

Using the banquet example I quote Groucho Marx, "I don't want to join any club that would have me as a member. Please accept my resignation." If I can't enter on my own merits then I walk away and pursue my own path. I'm not going to put on a false description just to enter the feast and then take it off and say that I didn't really mean it. I'm not going to say that I am gay just to get in and then immediately say that I wasn't gay really but as an advertising tag once said "I'm only here for the beer". Unfortunately for MOH I know that I am a lone wolf with few people close to me and even fewer who understand me ( I am convinced that MOH thinks that she does but doesn't really otherwise she wouldn't put up so much opposition ) so I have little to lose by going my own way. I've done it before. I do hold my hands up and say that I don't understand MOH either - just when I think I am getting on top of things she throws in that spanner and topples the whole house of cards. But I suppose that MOH is the only one that really keeps me within any family and social structure. The way society is going I don't really want to be a full-time member.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby hoborob » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:52 pm

I find that it is equally interesting that a mention of the color spectrum has been brought up. When the larger truth is that the color spectrum is only a tiny part of another spectrum which spans information that covers colors that we cannot see and also includes sounds that we can hear. In fact the color and audio spectrums are small parts of what is known as the Electromagnetic Spectrum Which starts at a frequency of 0 Hz (Or Direct Current/DC) up to a frequency which we have no definition for or ability to detect. There are in fact a number of distinct spectrums that are all contained within the EM Spectrum. Among them being the Audio Spectrum, the Color spectrum, The Radio Frequencies spectrum, the microwave spectrum, etc.

Defining a specific wavelength as a particular type of wave is only convenient when it fits within a particular spectrum but the are of course complex waveforms that do fit any particular grouping. The same is true of the "gender" spectrum. We are all unique and different with similarities as well. The labels used can truly only be used on those similarities but the differences truthfully often make the labels incorrect or in cases just plain wrong.

In the long haul we should be celebrating our differences rather than condemning them as being out of the ordinary when they pop up.
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Re: Fashion wont be truly genderless until more men wear ski

Postby TheSkirtedMan » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:50 pm

Sinned wrote:In fact gender doesn't matter to me. I know what sex I am; I know what my sexuality is; I don't really know what gender I am nor do I care. I believe I have established a style and am comfortable with it. So, gender - it's just another word.


Exactly. Society is obsessed with labels and descriptions and mostly played as and how society members need them to suit and mostly not uniformly. Some labels are needed obviously but the majority just cause problems especially when hypocrisy is a requirement in the application.

I am a man biologically, but otherwise for society egalitarian, and recognise people as people. With regards fashion androgynous. Three required labels, after that we all have names to be referred to and acknowledged. The male and female labels to segregate, undermine, belittle, compete etc are irrelivant. Said in a nutshell. Some exceptions in a deeper discussion.

With regards the question of this thread, the title is the answer.
Be yourself because an original is worth more than a copy.
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